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Stormtrooper 12/22/2019 (Sun) 07:47:21 No.1139
What's your own Star Wars story pitch? Movie, book, comic, game? Tell me your multi million dollar idea.
>>1139 A West Wing-like show about Palpatine during his days of chancellery dealing with issues not pertaining to galactic domination. Thinking more realistically, a recut of all the prequels completed with entirely new CGI and some changes like the toning down of Jar Jar.
Imperial Commando. Basically anything that shows storm troopers or the empire as a whole as a powerful force to be reckoned with. Or an RTT/TBT X-COM type game following Thrawn's exploits. Lightning guerilla strikes aimed at destabilizing the false new republic, both ground and space skirmishes and whatnot.
It is some unknown time after the Yuuzhan Vong conflict. On an isolated world, a scant few thousand Yevethan colonists are trying to get by. Originally from a larger colony closer to their homeworld, the Vong invasion and genocide against their species caused them to flee at random. Now, finally situated where they feel somewhat safe, they've spent years trying to insulate themselves as much as possible from any further threat. Being so cut off, however, they have no idea where they actually are, what has been going on in the galaxy since they left, or whether their fellow colonists still live. All they know is that the Vong came and decimated their people where they could find them. I want the book to be about the few ruling elites left trying to placate the larger populace with promises of grand weapons they're actually nowhere close to producing, and dealing with "gee, should we really be doing any more of this wacky ceremonial sacrifices with as much frequency?". And that's just the setting motherfuckers, because oh shit scientists start picking up possible nearby traffic. Vong traffic? I got this other idea of a Sith relic collector who secludes himself using Sith Alchemy while he collects, studies, and compiles information. For years he settles with holocrons for social interaction. Even gets a droid or two. This only goes so far and so, after a little prompting from the holocrons to man up and find an apprentice or something, he throws out some shade to see what happens. Lo and behold, a Sith shows up to his front door. The collector goes out of his way to be as accommodating and subservient as possible, offering him free study of all his belongings, bringing him deeper and deeper into the complex and deeper into the alchemy that is erasing his presence from the notice of the galaxy. Sometime later and a befuddled collector comes to his front door to discover a friggen Jedi ready for combat and demanding to be given the Sith he's been tracking up until this location. The collector pulls his diminutive, harmless schtick again and coaxes the Jedi inside, promising him no harm. Which he actually sort of delivers, as he takes the Jedi down a prolonged tour of his items, deeper and deeper into the complex, deeper and deeper into the influence of the Sith Alchemy, until they get to a dining room where there so sits a rather unhappy Sith chained to a table being served lunch by a droid. The Jedi suddenly realizes that he's feeling a touch cut off from things and before he knows it he's sitting exactly opposite of his quarry sharing sandwiches while the collector beams about how many new friends he's made in one weak. I don't know what happens next but the whole idea amuses me greatly.
Hundreds of years post-ROTJ, the Jedi are the dominant power and run a theocratic, oligarchical government that is leading to death by stagnation for the Galaxy. It's a new form of Sith philosophy, one similar to Revan's, that aims to disrupt the Order's suffocating grip on power. It's somewhat a role reversal of existing periods in the timeline, but I think the EU desperately needed a positive portrayal of the Sith in order to give weight to the "balance of the Force" concept even if it goes counter against Lucas's idea that "balance = no Sith".
>>1139 a story about a jedi knight wandering in space, hopping from planet to planet, defending innocents and fighting for justice everywhere
We need to have a new Jedi game with a custom lightsaber builder like Bladebuilders built into it. You can start with certain presets like single saber, double saber, pikes, etc. and modify them as you see fit before taking them into battle. You could perhaps implement customization for your non-Jedi arsenal as well. You could even optionally allow people to make custom animations to go with their sabers, possibly having an official site where people post their sabers and animations for download. We also need another strategy game. We've had Rebellion, Force Commander and Empire at War so far, at least if you're not counting Disney's mobileshit. We need something that combines the best of all of the above. Empire at War was the most successful of them, but it dropped many of the deeper aspects of the previous games like Jedi training, diplomacy, espionage, recruitment and a full 3D battlefield. Some of those should probably be handled differently from before, but they should still be included in some form. Something somewhat more esoteric and that's never been done before by LucasArts would be a slicer game. You can play as a slicer and go around h4x0ring the galaxy and navigating a complex plot with shades of Deus Ex and Ghost in the Shell where you can join several factions who are seeking your services including the Rebels, the Empire, crime syndicates, and some of the lesser-used organizations like the Corporate Sector which would be good for this sort of thing, among others. Boss battles would prominently feature ways to disable them through slicing, but would also often include ways to just skip the boss outright through clever tricks. You'd also have some blasters and other non-slicing ways to fight because nobody is complete without them, but you're not Boba Fett and you can't pretend to be if you expect to survive. It may also include some encounters with glowrodslingers who you can humiliate with your 1337 skillz, but these ideally should be kept to a minimum because the story isn't about them. It's more cyberpunk and that means it's about skilled-but-otherwise-average people instead of the Anointed Savior (TM). The closest thing they've ever done to this is TOR's much-lauded Imperial Agent story, but the Galactic Empire period has more of the grungy lived-in feel that goes better with cyberpunk than the elegance of the Old Republic era, and TOR doesn't have the option to have your character pick between or change factions.
A sequel to Jedi Outcast/Academy where Kyle Katarn and/or Jaden Korr fight in the Second Galactic Civil War
Give Corey Loses and his mod team money and an open source engine to turn Fall of the Republic and Imperial Civil War into a Total War-esque quasi grand strategy game. With expansions going into the Legacy era.
A story about a lone Stormtrooper who gets separated from his unit, and his story about surviving on a hostile planet with just his wits and his blaster.
I want a war movie that shows how ugly the Galactic Civil War would have gotten. I'm thinking of something along the lines of Apocalypse Now on a jungle planet, where an understaffed Imperial garrison has to fend off hit and run-attacks by rebels hiding in the forest, or WWI-style trench warfare.
>>1139 Imperial sided film & or a Sith sided film series jedi & republic shown to be very flawed no half assing it with desertion or bs like that
>>1228 I absolutely do want to see a story where different dark side factions fight each other. In fact that's what I was hoping would happen in Disney Wars Episode III with the First Order and the Sith Eternal. I also still think the Sith Civil War in KOTOR2 was criminally underdeveloped.
>>1229 Agreed, I liked Kotor's jedi civil war bit this would be interesting for a film series in the right hands as would the Sith civil war. The point is we should get a Imperial/Sith film series done right however in the current climate; disney owns Star wars & the fact that there are unbalanced retards & political "news media" that think ( or are paid to think) that fictional factions & religions from a movie are "nazis".... which makes the premise unlikely to happen. Also I think they retconned Korriban in the Rise of skywalker........
Stark Hyperspace War but in film format, or what >>1140 said about redoing the prequels
>>1139 Nothing special. If Disney and NG didn't suck, I'd say National Geographic and Star Wars should've done a short fake animal documentary series on stuff like Rancors, Banthas, Nexus, Bogwings, Kintan Striders, etc. Kind of like this Monster Hunter video. Might not make any millions, but it would be amusing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7OgAZS4xWQs
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>>1139 Kyle Katarn's own movie (or TV show), and it's good [containing no kikery] BUGGER OFF MONKEY PAW. Queue drowning in credits. >>1228 This would be pretty good too, but if you want that there's a lot of fan films that exist doing that.
>>1139 I think a seven samurai like movie about a group of jedi defending a village/temple/holocron/whatever from an overwhelming imperial force would be pretty kino. >>1196 Based and Coreypilled
>>1139 Episodic multi-part re-write of the SWTOR era focusing around the not-shit class stories.
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A show about smugglers doing smuggler things set right after the OT. Think kind of like Cowboy Bebop but with Star Wars. They smuggle their illicit goods while trying to escape the clutches of the New Republic, Imperial Remnant, Hutts, or anyone else who might have a grudge against them.
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Gentle femdom erotica story set during the EU New Republic Era. A thicc Togruta Jedi master mommy, either Ahsoka or even Shaak Ti(if she somehow survived all those years in hiding) joins Luke's academy as a Jedi knight and takes a young human male as a padawan. The two fall in love and the Togruta female is also incredibly repressed and horny because only now did Master Luke allow Jedis to fuck and marry. Shenanigans ensue. It could be written like shit but at the same time be 50 Shades but for guys. I just want a gentle femdom togruta mommy gf.
>>1210 >lone stormtrooper It would only lampshade the purposedly comical and subversive characterization of white soldiers as bumbling buffoons in every other movie. >>1226 >ugly war Instead you'd get the same thing, from the side of the commies. When SW was always gallantry and chivalrous heroics, you would have rhetorical WW2 propaganda. Oh wait, that's the Sequels.
>>1300 Me too buddy
>>1139 Book/movie idea is a goodfellas type movie. Explore the grimmy side of scum and villainy, follow someone's rise through the ranks of a hutt cartel. Show them working with rebels smuggling drugs and supplies for them while trying to avoid Imperial attention. The movie shows them rise and fall being picked up by Imperials and given a summary execution at the end.
>>1300 >gentle femdom togruta mommy gf 10/10 taste
>>1196 Would be interesting, but I find it difficult to support Corey given the degree of Disneycuck he is.
>>1139 A book about the New Republic and Imperial Remnant. Set on a backwater disease and parasite infested jungle planet where "Rebels" and Imperial deserters have been fighting for years against the Empire. A fresh wave of Imperial reinforcements arrive to break the stalemate only for one of the units to go rogue and take the fight to the Rebels orders be damned. Upon discovery of this an Imperial Commando on the planet is given the task to hunt down and kill the leader of said unit. Meanwhile everyone is unaware that the whole battle is a sham, and that the planet is a dumping ground for fuck-ups both Imperial and New Republic/Alliance alike, while also preventing further warfare from breaking out in the system. As a final kicker, unknown to either side is that the planet itself may be a Genius loci. And subtly influencing everything that happens on the planet. In other words, Apocalypse Now mixed with a Cosmic Horror story.
>>1331 This is actually pretty close to the plot of a 40k book, Firecaste. It's about a war on a deathworld between the guard and tau.
>>1303 > from the side of the commies. When SW was always gallantry and chivalrous heroics, you would have rhetorical WW2 propaganda. Oh wait, that's the Sequels. Rey Palpatine removed the Skywalker bloodlines, takes the Skywalker name and anything and everything associated with it, including the Tattoine farm. Fuck they're not even hiding it anymore.
>>1337 I'm not even surprised at this point. Ah well, back to the drawing board.
Any kind of story set in the gaps in the legacy era, or from Darth Bane establishing the rule of two to the prequel trilogy. It just makes me miffed about how there are no stories set in either of those times when they are some many possible options. Hell even a story about how the Fel empire even became the dominant force would be enough to satisfy me.
>>1337 >A 40k book Is it any good? The quality of those varies insanely.
>>1344 >Any kind of story set in the gaps in the legacy era, Christie Golden's Sword of the Jedi series was going to be exactly that, but the series got canned when the mouse bought LF.
>>1348 I thought so, it's one of the darker books that does lend itself to the "everyone dies" trope. But I think it does so in an interesting and somewhat confusing way. It follows the guard regiment that got dumped there because on their homeworld they had come across a town that had fallen into worshipping chaos, problem was that the world had fallen to chaos before and had been cleansed, so the local commander sends them off to die to help keep a lid on the chaos outbreak incase the inquisition would decide that it's exterminatus time.
>inb4 tldr >Post The Last Jedi Film/story about the formation of a new Jedi and Sith order >2 stories going on that are cut back and forth between Rey deciding what it means to be a Jedi and Kylo attempting to take on Sith apprentices >Rey takes books to an out of the way planet so not the be caught by the New Order but finds they have limited use >It helps her get a strong enough grasp of the force to see ghost Luke and Ghost Yoda >Luke is still mad at Yoda for trying to burn the books by Rey points out they are not that useful as their contents are mostly about philosophy pertaining to how to defend the republic and from a preservative in which the Jedi have a clear advantage over the Sith both in number reach. >Yoda admits there are other things wrong with it, like the chapter on Midi-chlorians. >Yoda admits that Midi-chlorians do not cause the force however they are attracted to some force uses and have a symbiotic relationship, allowing force user to live very long lives and recover from minor wounds faster. >Yoda knew that the council was lying to its own people and to the republic because they did not truly understand the force and knew that the republic knew they would come to fear the Jedi Cut to Kylo >With Snok dead, this would make Kylo the master Sith which means its time for him to take on apprentices >He picks General Hux; as Hux has an anger that is befitting the Sith, DJ; as his willingness to sell out people who helped him is befitting the Sith, and Captain Phasma; as she is now driven by a desire to seek vengeance on Fin, and that vengnece is befitting the Sith. >He takes them to an ancient Sith training ground >Hux gains a strong grasp of the Force, and DJ gets a decent grasp, but Phasma doesn't seem to "get it" she is unknowing a decedent of a Clone Trooper and thus a Mandalorian however her light saber skills are unmatched, even with Hux and DJ both practicing against her, and DJ got real into the Sith philosophy and history >Kylo also gets better via teaching but has a nightmare where they betray him and overpower him Cut back to Rey >Luke is fucking livid with Yoda >Luke reveals part of why he stopped training Kylo was because his Midi-chlorian score was low >Yoda explains that his convictions to the old teaching were not yet fully broken >He has been questioning them since training Luke as he broke many of the rules while training Luke and Luke seems to have avoided the Dark side quite well >Indeed, dispite Luke being angry as hell, Yoda still doesn't sense the Dark side, not unlike Mace Windu. >Rey also angry at this point >Decides to return to the Rebellion and see if Leia can help her instead
>>1407 >She gets back to the Rebellion and sees everyone in mourning >Leia died in her sleep >Holdo holds a meeting with the rebellion and announces she is taking full control of the rebellion >States that she will be taking it in a new direction, and that they will now do whatever it takes to stop the New Order >Rey has a force vision in the first person of Holdo arguing with "her" >Holdo wants to use underhanded methods like doing a false flag attack on civilians to encourage them to join the rebellion >"Rey" states (in her own voice) "as long as I breath this rebellion will not resort to methods that the belong to the Sith". >Holdo says "so be it" >Rey snaps out of it >The rebellion applauds the speech >Behind closed doors most seem ambivalent at best about the change in methods but acknowledge that there isn't an other option. >Fin is unconvinced >Ray is shaken by the vision and confides in Fin that she had some kind of a vision and doesn't trust Holdo and no longer feels confident in the Rebellion >Rey leaves an unaddressed note for Fin in his quarters for him to find that states she thinks that Holdo killed Leia and is going to try to start a new Jedi order elsewhere. She asks him to stay with the rebellion to try and keep it from falling to the Dark Side >Rose snoops in Fin's room like the stalker she is finds the note instead >Acting rashly without thinking ahead, as is her character, she tries to kill Holdo instead of telling anyone else about it >Holdo manages to resist her and Rose is forced to flee, taking an escape pod, but she drops the note while fleeing >Holdo sees the note >She is certain that the note was for Fin, not Rose, and the fact that Fin didn't stop her from attacking her means that Fin didn't read it >She announces that Rose attempted to assassinate her to the rebellion >She doctors the note so that it says to try to kill Holdo and not resist the direction she is taking the rebellion in and uses it as evidence for Rey's supposed betrayal >Knowing that Fin would likely be a thorn in her side anyway, she send him and someone who is loyal to her out with order to kill Rey for and order to kill Fin should he refuse to kill Rey Cut to Rey
>>1408 >Rey passes out while flying her ship and crashes onto a planet >While she is out she has a vision where Leia trains her, not unlike the training in EP 9 >She awakens to find that she is on a planet that is devoid of life and gives her a strange feeling of concern >She is on the Sith planet that Kylo and his apprentices are training on >She can tell they are approaching from the distance as she has that strange thing going with Kylo and leaves the ship to hide in the ruins >While hiding in another part of the ruins she comes across tools and parts for building lightsabers and pockets them >Eventually after some close calls they see its her and take chase >She fights them off but is getting backed into a corner/clif >Fin arrives in orbit >Phasma calls for support from the New Order to take out the ship but Kylo says to belay those orders and chides Phasma when she argues against it for trying to supersede his authority >Fin shoots at the the four Siths from his ship and they have to go into hiding lands quickly and tries to get Rey on board but Fin and Ray are killed by the loyalist >Cut to Rey with glassy eyes that go back into focus >It was another vision >As the ships doors open, but Rey is prepared fro the loyalist and pulls the blaster out of their hand with the force and uses to force push the loyalist against a wall and knocks them unconscious then jumps on I'm not good with emotional stuff, but basicly emotions run high and Fin and Rey share a romantic kiss somehow. Cut to Kylo >Kylo is blaming everyone else for their failure when it was clearly his fault for not having the ship shot out of the sky >He retires to his private chambers >The 3 apprentices decide that they Kylo Ren is unfit for leadership, Hux suggests they kill Kylo Ren and Phasma agrees, however DJ says they shouldn't outright kill him, claiming that that kind of betray has always been the downfall the Sith and suggests they just take control and send him off to somewhere that he wont be in the way, after all, his so claimed "mastery" of the dark side is nothing but a joke to their expertise. >They form as pact and a new Sith order, stronger then the old. Film ends. It might be better to have the emotional first kiss scene before the Sith start a new order though. Next film would be a character driven piece where Kylo Ren >Kylo is demoted to a security officer on a slave ship >Meets a senile enslaved Jar Jar who thinks he is Anakin >Gets Jar Jar to him the true story of his grandfathers life >Reconnecting to the force in order to keep Jar Jar alive by making the ships cook give the Gungans more food by using the force persuasion to continue telling him about his grandfather >Finds out that Anakin was born as slave >Disgusted at the fact his is now working on a slave ship he murders the crew and captain using dark force powers >Freed slaves thank him and proclaim him a Jedi >Jar Jar has a moment of clarity and understands that Kylo is Anakin's grandson >Tells him that he shouldn't be afraid of his anger as there was a great Jedi who was able to control his anger named Mace Windu >Jar Jar says that it saddens him that Anakin ultimately fell to the likes of Palpatine and didn't turn out like Mace unknowingly referencing the scene were Anakin did exactly that >Kylo rides off into space with a newly freed Twi'lek co-pilot to find out what it means to use the force to help people
>>1196 I'd split off space battles into their own game, a space-only successor to EaW fixing its major flaws, and make an actual grand strategy (not 4X), Paradox-style representation of the post-Endor period. Have a complex political simulation with multilayered administration at the planetary, sector and galactic level as in CK2 with any polity at the sector level and above playable. Polities or the characters that lead them are organized in relations of vassalage but those can be sector to sector, so a breakaway Moff can force the surrounding Moffs to pledge allegiance to him. It is hard to administer a large number of governments or planetary governors so most of the time you'll only directly administer your own power base and maybe a key planets beyond it; even if you're Zsinj most of your territory will be under sector governments. Each individual vassal has his own privileges with his suzerain: how much they have to give in credits and military commitment, how much the suzerain can interfere in local affairs, how independent is the vassal's foreign policy and so on. The primary factors in the vassal-suzerain relationship are their ratio of military power and distance, which are also taken into calculation for the relations between independent polities, and how well-established your administrative structure is. Achieve a good victory and strengthen your navy and you can impose tighter control on the Moffs near your personal demesne aswell as get independent Moffs neighboring your warlord state to pledge allegiance. Suffer defeat and vassal sectors at your borders will loosen their allegiance or even break away. For Imperial sectors there is one more factor, your ideological legitimacy: holding some systems such as Imperial Center, fighting the New Republic more than fellow Imperials and administering your territory in an orthodox New Order fashion (e.g. upholding humanocentrism, though that may lead to unrest if your subject population is non-human) will make you more palatable. The point of all this theoretical talk is that there would be a dynamic simulation of Imperial warlordism. Begin a game as Sate Pestage and you find that, though on paper you have the strongest military and largest budget in the galaxy, it is in fact very difficult to hold on to the Empire in its post-Endor state. Besides debuffs coming from the Endor aftermath and Pestage's unpopularity you'll find a massive chunk of your systems are not ideologically aligned with the New Order and hate you while your Moffs and admirals don't respect you and will defy your authority because you have far too many of them. When Sheev reappears he has massive legitimacy and the warlords rally around his cause but as soon as he dies they reassert themselves. In the majority of games there will thus be a breakaway of the Imperial periphery into warlord states and the fall of Imperial Center, followed by the New Republic asserting its authority over most of the galaxy but itself getting overextended and making peace with a rump Empire; this should be a natural consequence of game mechanics with little railroading. Any random Moff can try to carve out a warlord state for himself, or even make a bid for galactic domination. I've thought a lot about Imperial mechanics. The New Republic's functioning is something I haven't settled, maybe each sector can vie for winning elections (like the HRE in Europa Universalis). There would also be the Hapes Consortium, Corporate Sector, Centrality, Hutts, Chiss and so on, and special mechanics for pirates and outlaws even though they wouldn't necessarily be playable. If you survive long enough you can then face the Vong as a late-game horde.
>>1903 >paradox star wars game Funny enough there is a mod for that in development. Its for HOI4, which is unfortunate as I understand its a downgrade from previous HOI game, maybe its easier to mod or something I dunno but credit where its due I think they have some neat ideas; its set just before the start of the clone wars and has an emphasis on what ifs and a sort of alt-history stuff; Jango and Zam can successfully assassinate Padme, Dooku can betray Sheev and either make the Confederacy an actual benevolent force or become the new master of the Sith, Sheev can die during the clone wars and be replaced by Padme, Organa, Mas Amedda, a military dictatorship led by either Tarkin or Yuralen, and it will be possible for Anakin to side with Windu and kill Sheev which can result in the Jedi taking control of the Republic, directly or from the shadows, this will cause Anakin losing what ever faith he had in the Jedi and the Republic left and he'll go back to Tatooine to free the slaves, and mistreating the clones can end with them revolting The one thing that does scream red flag to me is that there is going to be a communist ideology, distributionism, but from what I can gather there aren't going to be any initial commie nations and neither the confederacy nor the republic can follow the ideology, and the devs said the main inspiration for it was the would be droid revolution, which may mean this is less "muh gorious revolution" and more "kill the meat bags"
>>1407 >entire plot to reverse muh midichlorians >Rey doing anything of her own volition >prequels bad Hi, Reddit!
>>1407 >>1408 >>1410 My fuck these are bad, please never write any continuous narrative longer than a paragraph again. >Kylo rides off into space with a newly freed Twi'lek co-pilot to find out what it means to use the force to help people My fucking sides, dude. Unironically worse writing than J.J..
>>1905 >Jango and Zam can successfully assassinate Padme, Dooku can betray Sheev and either make the Confederacy an actual benevolent force or become the new master of the Sith, Sheev can die during the clone wars and be replaced by Padme, Organa, Mas Amedda, a military dictatorship led by either Tarkin or Yuralen, and it will be possible for Anakin to side with Windu and kill Sheev That’s all good but it’s HoI4. That means literally any of those events will either be random chance which means there will be a paragraph explaining what happened and that’s it or there will be a paragraph explaining what is happening and two options where you just choose what you want. Despite HoI4 being the most geared towards alt-history in the HoI series it does so in the most lazy and boring ways. The base game is trash and no amount of modding or DLC can fix it, they don’t even have a diplomacy system in a game set in the 1930’s, and no improve relations isn’t diplomacy. The mods sounds interesting but a fantastic mod built on a shit game won’t be great.
>>1916 Fair enough, still some neat ideas if anyone resurrects the alt-hist thread we had back on 8ch before the shitstorm hit
>>1924 Seems like stellaris would be a better base game, but it’s the one paradox game I haven’t played so I don’t know if it’s very moddable.
>>1905 The redistributionism sounds out of place, it's the kind of thing probably only dealt by planetary governments. An actual droid or anti-Human (Diversity Alliance) ideology would make a lot of sense. On the other hand Anakin leading a slave revolt sounds exciting and feels like it could fit. Problem is, having all those ideologies makes little difference because they're just a pie chart attached to each tag. The government's ideology does have concrete impact but the breakdown has little. Oftentimes the % of each ideology can't even determine which one gets into power because that's railroading, and the percentages themselves get railroaded. Hoi4 isn't even clear on what exactly the percentages mean, I guess it's the popularity among the wider population. None of the Paradox games are quite fit for what I have in mind. Hearts of Iron 3, Darkest Hour, Europa Universalis III etc. have too small of a playerbase now and the older ones are based on ancient code which would prove very hard to use in a radical total conversion. Stellaris >>1948 as far as I know doesn't even accept fixed starting scenarios, it really breaks off from grand strategy in that regard. Europa Universalis IV has complex diplomacy, a Holy Roman Empire system that can be used for the Senate, terra incognita which can be used to hide the Hapes Consortium, Yevethans, Chiss, Empire of the Hand and so on, culture and religion at the province level (=species and alignment at the system level) and tag level with several ways to manage both, some anti-blobbing mechanisms and lots of ways to apply buffs and debuffs to tags. On the other hand I hate the monarch power system, the naval system is far too shallow and a subtle but potentially dramatic problem exists: the smallest unit of time is a day for a game meant for several hundred years and yet we're talking of decades at most. Crusader Kings II has characters, a vassalage system and culture and religion at the province and character level. There's pretty much no naval system but it's possible to use armies as fleets, and from then there's a fair bit of space for complexity with the levy/retinue/mercenary distinction and different unit types. As only a few polities are dynastic advanced workarounds would be necessary to implement the political system. The time unit problem remains. Victoria II simulates a lot of things a lot better than the other ones but much of it is not needed in our context. There's a real economic system giving a concrete basis to budgets, a way to represent societal changes with a tag's capabilities determined by its population rather than values slapped to the tag itself, okay naval system with as many ship types as needed and strong political mechanics. But its best mechanics are too advanced for what I'd do, it's hard to mod and there's still the time problem. Hearts of Iron IV has a proper time scale, a deep naval system and the highest degree of moddability. It suffers from its general shallowness, not just military or political but also in the lack of information at the province level. There's not even names! Its vassalage system can be adapted to what I described with new tiers, new diplomatic actions and some work on the AI. Orbital defense stations would require some creativity to implement.
>>1992 >Orbital defense stations would require some creativity to implement. Edit costal forts?
>>1996 Coastal forts defend against amphibious invasions, I don't think they interfere in naval combat. I was thinking of representing them as ships with a range so small they can only act in the zone around their port.
>>1998 You could have them as some sort of AA Defense but you said your making ships into a modded navy, not airforce so that won’t work.
>>1996 >>1998 for space stations the only way I think they can be implemented would be to have them act as a very heavy ship type that has little to no range and movement speed, why ground to space weaponry should be a very expensive aircraft that can only go on naval bombing missions.
>>1156 >It's somewhat a role reversal of existing periods in the timeline, but I think the EU desperately needed a positive portrayal of the Sith in order to give weight to the "balance of the Force" concept Big-brain centrism is turbo homo-gay. >it goes counter against Lucas's idea that "balance = no Sith". That's the correct interpretation, it's not just Lucas's but also the one accepted in the EU.
>>2031 >That's the correct interpretation I always thought it was balanced out at the end of RoTS since there were two sith and two Jedi left hence little orphan Annie bringing balance by killing 6 million Jedi. I mean of course the EU kinda ruined it by leaving 100 Jedi alive but
>>2036 The EU also had dark side adepts and inquisitors not the helicopter kind so it balanced out
>>2036 I agree with more Jedi surviving the purge, that way Vader can continue hunting them down.
>>1905 >>1992 You have some of this alt-history stuff in Rebellion, but it's nowhere near this extensive. It's just that certain canonical events can either happen or not, but you can't change the outcomes if they do happen with few exceptions. There's nothing like being able to have somebody else take over the Republic. Many people here have problems with how little interactivity this offers, while I was having problems with many types of missions from Rebellion not being in EaW. Maybe we can solve both problems at once by implementing a new way of doing things in which all the Rebellion missions like diplomacy, espionage, etc. are built into the tactical missions along with important story events like how quests work in RPGs, and many of these events are associated with specific worlds. Storyline happenings would then become just as much of a strategic consideration as political support and the sizes and makeup of your fleets and armies. This was attempted to some extent in Rebellion, but there weren't enough storyline events for it to be that significant. Many of the foibles of the strategy genre can be solved by taking things from other genres. All of this can tie into the idea of having multiple outcomes of canonical storyline events, because any faction can attempt these quests and resolve them differently to produce favorable outcomes for their side. It would be interesting to have a diplomacy system that lets you take up the task of diplomatic missions yourself with dialogue options, which means it's now up to the player to do well instead of just hoping you get a good dice roll on your diplomacy. Playing as different characters would yield different dialogue options, so selecting the best diplomat for the mission is still important. But of course, sending a character on a diplomacy mission will make them unavailable for other missions until their diplomacy mission is done, so you have to pick and choose who to send and when because you may need that character for something somewhere else. Or there may be some side mission you can accomplish through the tactical interface which will persuade that planet to join you, or some planets may have both a sidequest and a dialogue contribute to their decision, and if the other side sends diplomats of their own simultaneously, you may have to fight them with whatever units you have present. Espionage missions can also be done through the tactical interface. You'd need a few characters and special ops units skilled in slicing and infiltration. Recruitment can be made possible through a variety of methods similar to how you'd recruit an RPG character such as completing missions, finding characters residing on certain planets and convincing them to join through dialogue, or even having to locate moving characters. You could also have Jedi characters gain more and better abilities over time similar to how they do in Jedi Knight or KotOR by completing quests and gaining experience. You may want to have the ability to perform Rebellion-style Jedi training where they get taken out of play for a while to train, but this would mean you couldn't use them on missions during their training. Anybody wondering about the viability of this quest system that combines Rebellion-style missions and story events with the tactical interface and dialogue should note that the canonical events of the CW era resemble the Rebellion victory conditions almost as much as the GCW. In Rebellion, each side has to capture the top 2 leaders of the other side and take their main base by either capturing Coruscant as the Rebels or destroying Rebel HQ as the Empire, while in the actual storyline the CIS was defeated after its top 2 leaders, Dooku and Grievous, were killed and what was effectively its main base on Mustafar was destroyed. The Rebellion victory conditions should be easily translatable into the CW era, and in the case of the Republic's leaders it would even be the same 2 people. But Dooku and Grievous' deaths happened during major Republic victories at Coruscant and Utapau, and the Republic won another major victory at Kashyyyk almost simultaneously. If Dooku and Grievous had died but the Republic had lost some or all of those battles, the CIS might have continued on. That's why I don't think the Rebellion victory conditions should actually be made the victory conditions of a hypothetical improved CW-era EaW. The only victory condition for non-storyline modes should be destroying the other side entirely. But Rebellion's Final Battle event and the events leading up to it could have counterparts in this era in the attempt to overthrow Sheev before he becomes Emperor, and while this may not be suitable as an out-and-out victory condition by itself, it could still have a huge impact on who wins the war and would effectively decide who wins many matches. However, there would have to be more than just 2 outcomes. Those outcomes depend on both the status of certain major characters and the political situation at large. How that could have played out is a discussion for an alt-history thread.
>>2052 >If Dooku and Grievous had died but the Republic had lost some or all of those battles, the CIS might have continued on. I doubt they would considering their final form of leadership the Separatist Council is killed in a pretty unavoidable event unless the CIS suddenly betrayed ole Sheev and ran from Anakin.and i doubt the choice of planet would really change it The CIS would not manage to be a stable entity without any of those factors, and splinters from it would be quickly wiped out by the empire as per usual. Grievous surviving is probably the most realistic CIS survival. But any of the two major "leaders"(or the council) of the CIS managing to survive would probably save the CIS from destruction. The CIS surviving would have a pretty huge effect on the Imperial navy realistically, which wasn't really built for fighting a similar power like the actual CIS. Didn't the empire rely on a lot of the companies behind the CIS too? The empire would probably be insanely different and i wouldn't be sure the Rebellion would ever really form. Much less a lot of what would be imperial tech would be CIS tech instead.though they would still be different, though using imperial stuff as a base removes some work
>>1992 I'd argue that a lot of the stuff listed here isn't necessary for either the CW era or the post-Endor era simply because it doesn't fit into the setting, but some of it would be good. Let's go down the list: >complex diplomacy This is needed without a doubt and many of my ideas here are focused on how to make it happen. >Holy Roman Empire system that can be used for the Senate HE IS THE SENATE ...until he's suddenly not because he dissolved the Senate. Not needed for CW and probably not for post-Endor either because most Imperial warlords aren't the democracy-loving type. >terra incognita which can be used to hide the Hapes Consortium, Yevethans, Chiss, Empire of the Hand and so on Probably only needed for post-Endor. >culture and religion at the province level (=species and alignment at the system level) Some planets have their own native religions, but it's different when the setting has a religion that's actually been proven correct. Culture is still very much a thing, but you can handle this by working it into the diplomacy system. >buffs and debuffs to planets Already in EaW, but could maybe use some expansion. >monarch power system Don't know what this is because I haven't played it, but the only monarch here is our glorious Emperor, Rebel scum. >naval system >characters Already in Rebellion and EaW. FoCom and EaW also have land battles. >vassalage system Don't know what this is either, but I doubt it does anything that isn't already inherent in EaW in some form. Probably not needed. >hard to mod So nothing from it matters here then. >economic system giving a concrete basis to budgets This issue may not be as difficult as you'd think since we're operating on a multi-planetary level. Any planet that has the capability to support humanoid life will probably have roughly the same collection of resources, so the only difference will be planets with non-humanoid life that have very strange characteristics. You can account for weird planets by using planetary buffs and debuffs to signify an overabundance of a certain type of resource and a dearth of other types. So basically the only thing we'd actually need from this list for a CW-era mod of EaW that expands on RaW is diplomacy. Everything else is taken care of by the quest system and the things EaW already has. Post-Endor by contrast will be a good deal harder and I don't know if it could be done by modding EaW. I'd also like to find a way to incorporate slicing so you can spy without having to directly risk your characters, but your slicers may get caught and located by the opponent and subsequently hunted down. If anybody is serious about actually attempting any of this, we may be able to get people from /agdg/ on /v/ to help out. Or you may be wary of that. >>2055 >The empire would probably be insanely different and i wouldn't be sure the Rebellion would ever really form. You'd probably just have a lot of the people who joined the Rebellion in the canon timeline joining the CIS instead, but it would still be very different because the CIS is a major power and not a guerrilla movement. I'm sure somebody has a lot of theories about an Empire vs CIS timeline. That would probably require an entirely separate mod because there are just too many differences from the canon to be accounted for otherwise.
>>2068 >RaW I probably shouldn't just assume that people know what this is despite where we are. This is Republic at War, a total conversion mod of Empire at War that transplants it into the CW era. A lot of the ideas in this thread could be implemented as total conversions. Somebody could make the Deus Ex in space idea I posted above by making a Deus Ex total conversion, especially since there's no need for the main PC to use glowrods. If anybody wanted to do anything with the CW era, they might just get Republic at War and make what would effectively be an expansion pack for it.
>>2068 You have absolutely no idea what he’s talking about.
>>2068 >This is needed without a doubt and many of my ideas here are focused on how to make it happen. For a spiritual successor to EaW with proper galactic mechanics. A lot of the ideas for that overlap with a grand strategy game but the main difference is that a GSG has no direct control over battles (what I assume you mean with tactical interface). As battles are already by themselves a lengthy topic that takes much effort to design I'd rather split them already from the galactic map and leave pure grand strategy for it. Grand strategy has a much wider scale, thousands of provinces in some games and tens of thousands in other. With the number of planets in lore a GSG galactic map would have an order of magnitude more planets than the largest map in Thrawn's Revenge. Hence it'd also have dozens of simultaneous battles which would be too much time and micro to fight individually. But without battles missions can't be represented tactically, which is indeed a good idea and somewhat exists in the Consortium's corruption missions. >Not needed for CW and probably not for post-Endor either because most Imperial warlords aren't the democracy-loving type. For Endor's aftermath I'd still represent the New Republic as each sector as its own tag with all of them together as a larger organization. In reality there'd be a number of complications in modding EU4 into something like that. >Probably only needed for post-Endor. Or not at all. The Chiss might as well be visible on the map at all times as long as interaction with them has diplomatic or even transit restrictions. >Some planets have their own native religions, but it's different when the setting has a religion that's actually been proven correct. Culture is still very much a thing, but you can handle this by working it into the diplomacy system. In Paradox games every province has culture and religion and so does the tag which controls them. In Victoria II this is even broken down into percentages, as it actually represents populations rather than territories. Provinces which don't have an official or integrated/accepted culture and/or religion offer their ruler less % of their income and manpower and have more unrest. There are ways to change culture and religion or to make them contribute more. These two systems are the obvious choices for representing species and political alignments. The Hutts may be able to fully exploit systems inhabited by their own and by other nearby species, but if they expand into, say, Kuat they won't be able to make full use of it. Non-human planets controlled by Imperial states will provide less tax income and be more likely to revolt. The New Republic will have it easier in this case. Which species are fully integrated can change but conditionally and at a political cost. Religion can be used for, of course, religion but I'd rather use it for political alignment (something simple like pro-Imperial, pro-New Republic, isolationist and so on; they are organized into groups so it's also possible to break any of these into several more). It'd be a lot more flexible and systems would change their commitment due to both passive and active intervention by the controlling power (e.g. a warlord with a benevolent and competent administration swaying systems that'd rather be independent, propaganda campaigns turning New Republic sympathizers into loyal Imperials) and other factors (incompetent administration having the opposite effect, external propaganda, etc.). In CK2 and EU4 religion is already more flexible than culture with several mechanics for them to change on their own (such as the Protestant Reformation spreading through Europe) and religion-specific mechanics (Catholics closely following the Papacy). EaW's civilian forces in land battle and influence in Thrawn's Revenge don't get even close to what the most basic implementation of Paradox mechanics could do. >Don't know what this is because I haven't played it A nonsensical system which subjects everything to RNG, creates nonsensical choices between things that shouldn't be mutually exclusive as they consume the same kind of monarch power, makes mechanics feel gimmicky by being triple choices between the three kinds of power and cannot be modded out. >Already in Rebellion and EaW. FoCom and EaW also have land battles. All of those have land battles. Of the grand strategy kind, no direct control and no tactical view, just a box you can click and then the result. Characters in CK2 are more complex and do more stuff than in EaW, they have ages, families, culture, religion, personal relations, personal wealth, opinion of one another in the same manner as states have a relation value in EU, skills, traits (kind of education received, virtues and vices, physical traits, etc.) and more. They own territory and occupy positions in the political and military hierarchy. They can form plots and factions with one another to pressure the ruler or carry out assassinations. >Don't know what this is either, but I doubt it does anything that isn't already inherent in EaW in some form. Probably not needed. EaW has nothing of the sort. It's inherent that it can't have anything of the sort, because all states are hardcoded to be monolithic (no layers) and in the same diplomatic state (war) with each other. The closest is Corey's truces (e.g. between the Empire and New Republic in the Hunt for Zsinj) and CIS factions. An EaW successor doesn't need it (though it can happen) but a GSG would have it at its very heart with everything centered on it. In my concept Pestage, Zsinj, Kaine, Delvardus, Harrsk, etc. aren't the sole entities making calculations and decisions in the simulation. Rather than a dozen such entities there'd be hundreds. Every warlord state has its subject Moffs engaged in a struggle for greater or lesser autonomy with their overlord, maybe even every Moff has a "court" in which officers vie for power. Rather than picking between a dozen choices you can play as a minor Moff, and if bold enough break free and carve your own despotate. >This issue may not be as difficult as you'd think since we're operating on a multi-planetary level. Any planet that has the capability to support humanoid life will probably have roughly the same collection of resources, so the only difference will be planets with non-humanoid life that have very strange characteristics. You can account for weird planets by using planetary buffs and debuffs to signify an overabundance of a certain type of resource and a dearth of other types. Like I've said it's overkill. Victoria II can simulate a backwater becoming an industrial power through social and economic change but that's not needed, first because Star Wars is relatively static and second because the time period covered is too short for much change to happen. It's no wonder Hearts of Iron, which takes place over only a decade, has a much simpler economic system than Victoria, but it does give emphasis to control of resources. Assigning an income to the system and having the controller extract a % of it determined by unrest, integration of the population, quality of administration, extent of de facto control, etc. already covers almost all that's needed. Add to that a resource system (durasteel, tibanna, bacta but also some industrial components which are only available in specific places such as robotics and capital ship parts, maybe even a "training" resource which only systems like Carida provide) and mechanics for internal administration so you can be either a competent or negligent ruler and most is already covered. I'd also have technological output in some way at the system level and then technological advancement is either from such output in total (Hearts of Iron III) or per capita (Victoria II). But we're discussing different things, Grand Strategy is one thing, building on EaW's base is another. If you talk about modding EaW then your idea of expanding on the role of missions is promising.
>>2068 Further; to not make my post just a complete waste, the systems to are saying are already present or not in EaW are from multiple different games that have different focuses and mechanics, the modded anon was just going over a list of games he could potentially mod. Further his choice of game is due to the depth of combat, something EaW really doesn’t have and any amount of modding probably could implement. The game he chose is a WWII sim which has naval, air and land combat which all plays out in real time, and includes features like fuel management, manpower, equipment, and manufacturing, vassalage system (which is admittedly trash), and an political system or each faction, all things that don’t exist in EaW. Regardless why oppose him making the mod anyways, it’ll probably be free content for a series of games you don’t even play, plus there are lots of clone wars era conversion mods for EaW.
>>2083 >maybe even a "training" resource which only systems like Carida provide Can provinces in HoI add buffs? Instead of managing a training resource you could have that planet/province add a decrease in training time for drilling units or a decrease in time to deploy units in training. Though if not you could always get around it by adding an event that just adds those buffs when the province is captured, which could be a pain if it’s a near the front. Are you using HoI IV for certain?
>>2085 I was thinking of training as a resource only consumed in the formation and maintenance of elite units. >Though if not you could always get around it by adding an event that just adds those buffs when the province is captured, which could be a pain if it’s a near the front The event could be managed by an isolated tag nobody interacts with. I was thinking of triggered modifiers but apparently those don't exist in HoI4. >Are you using HoI IV for certain? It's the only Hearts of Iron game that could be used for this.
>>2081 I'm discussing several different approaches to different mods including what to use as a base. Some people were talking about making something out of the CW era and using EaW is a natural for that, especially since RaW and other similar mods already exist. Other people may prefer using something made by Paradox as a base and that's fine too, but I think that would be better for post-Endor. Some of the ideas here are usable in either case. I should have made that clearer. Sorry for any confusion this might have caused. >>2083 >A lot of the ideas for that overlap This. >Grand strategy has a much wider scale I'm familiar with grand strategy, but to the extent that I play the strategy genre at all it's mostly 4X. Tactical is a different thing and that's what I predominantly play, hence my focus on EaW. There's nothing quite like raining shells on some hapless bastard. >The Hutts may be able to fully exploit systems inhabited by their own and by other nearby species, but if they expand into, say, Kuat they won't be able to make full use of it. Non-human planets controlled by Imperial states will provide less tax income and be more likely to revolt. The New Republic will have it easier in this case. I'd love to play something like this as a GS mod, but for an EaW mod it's not needed because the focus is overwhelmingly on the major polities rather than interplanetary relations. Do you think religion is needed for that either? I doubt it, also because the focus is on major polities. I want to establish what you can do in EaW versus what you need a grand strategy framework for. >Characters in CK2 are more complex and do more stuff than in EaW I'd hope to use the expanded role of missions to incorporate a lot of these things into EaW. >If you talk about modding EaW then your idea of expanding on the role of missions is promising. I'm glad somebody likes this. >>2084 >Regardless why oppose him making the mod anyways I don't. I'm just investigating other approaches. See my response to >>2081. >there are lots of clone wars era conversion mods for EaW. Do any of them have diplomacy systems or dynamic quests attached to different worlds making you prioritize which story events you want to do to gain an advantage?
>>2086 >I was thinking of training as a resource only consumed in the formation and maintenance of elite units. Interesting, would it be a oil clone or would you implement it like support equipment? >It's the only Hearts of Iron game that could be used for this. In >>2083 it seemed you were still deciding between Paradox series. >>2093 Didn’t mean to be a dick this is a chan after all but still it really seemed in that post like you didn’t understand his breakdown of the various paradox titles and their key mechanics in discussion for which would best suit his vision for the mod. To me it seemed like you thought it was a list of things he wanted which some concepts in completely different implementations are indeed present in EaW. I may have misunderstood. >Do any of them have diplomacy systems or dynamic quests I have no experience modding but I’d imagine the framework of EaW doesn’t allow for any diplomatic system, or if it is one would have to build the entire system themselves rather than just editing an existing system which would probably cause many conflicts and bugs in the rest of the code, though I don’t see why dynamic quests can’t be modded in.
>>2095 CK2 and EU4 are also viable but HoI4 is preferred as long as a anti-blobbing mechanisms and dynamic vassalage can be implemented.
I want to go into some more of what I'm looking for in a CW-era mod of EaW to clarify things further. So essentially it plays like this: >Be upstanding Jedi type who's loyal to the Republic and democracy >Neutral planet with lots of good facilities and resources is up for grabs >Go to planet with an escort because you're the Negotiator and the best hope to get them on board with the Republic >Meet the governor of the planet >Governor is a serious funnel cake aficionado >Do an RPG quest in the tactical interface where you bring 20 funnel cakes to the governor >Ventress shows up and tries to fight you for the funnel cakes >Beat her ass >Take funnel cakes back to the governor and gain their allegiance >Now you can build facilities, ships and troops there in the strategic interface >But while you were doing that, the CIS sent Dooku to some other planet and he sweet-talked them into joining the CIS >Take your newly built ships and troops to the other planet led by Mr. Democracy and conquer them in tactical battle >Newly conquered planet still likes the CIS and is at risk of starting an insurrection >Oops, Dooku drank way too much Corellian whiskey and sent Ventress to handle a delicate diplomatic situation that blew up in her face a few systems over >CIS' popular support drops >Newly conquered planet has enough of its people lose their loyalty to the CIS that the planet is no longer at risk of insurrection Of course you have to have some way of potentially reverting a planet's support after it joins a faction, but the system used in Rebellion and most other strategy titles where you can bomb the fuck out of civilian targets, conquer the planet and then just send diplomats in to smooth things over and get the planet back up to 80% support for your side in a month with a few good diplomacy rolls isn't very believable, and this has been a perennial problem with the genre. It takes a generation or more for that kind of political shift unless you just kill everybody you don't like. Once a planet joins a certain faction, the support should often be more or less permanent absent a few very important events. Honestly, the entire concept of Rebellion makes a lot more sense when set in the CW era than during the GCW because you can become a major power fairly quickly playing as the Rebels without taking out either of the Empire's leaders, which is ridiculous because they're supposed to be a tiny rebel group against the big bad Empire. The Rebels still managed to sway public opinion in many cases, but that didn't translate into official territorial gains until Sheev was knocked off. Rebellion's popular support system only rated popular support on individual worlds, although you could gain more support throughout a sector if you freed a planet being held against their will by the other side or won a big fleet battle. A better way of doing it might be to measure both individual worlds' popular support and the combined popular support on all worlds, because even if the entire population of a planet hates you, they probably won't try to revolt against you unless many other worlds also hate you and they'd therefore be more likely to succeed. Crushing an attempted revolt would obviously make them hesitant to try again for a while, but if after some time the political situation hasn't changed, they'll try again. Failing to crush an attempted revolt could set off a host of new revolts on other worlds. >>2095 >build the entire system themselves rather than just editing an existing system which would probably cause many conflicts and bugs The best way of implementing popular support I can think of is to retrofit it onto EaW's system of planetary buffs and debuffs. Make a new buff for each planet to represent popular support that can change over time and put a total popular support reading somewhere on the interface. You could maybe have multiple buffs that change with each other to represent support for different factions or staying neutral.
Now that I think of it, the last centuries of the New Sith Wars are well fit for translation into Crusader Kings 2 as a mod.
>>1228 The Sith are even more flawed than the Jedi for anyone above the age of 15, or who aren't fedorafags. One of the great things about the Galactic Empire is it's atheistic, so I don't have to shit on it for its materialistic spiritual philosophy. The only downside to the Jedi is they're liberal ideologues*, although it's treated as more "knights if feudalism meant a form of democracy", that is, they're not really ideologues outside of what they profess to believe, often being critical of the system, much like how a knight may hold his liege lord in contempt but continue to fight for him as per the knightly way. Jedi protecting an empire would be a dream come true. *Where exactly is it stated that the Jedi are pacifists? Although they obviously prefer fighting only when absolutely necessary, I don't think they've ever been described as pacifists in the films. If they are, then that's another issue with them, but Sith ideology is so fundamentally broken (besides that the Force sees them as an unnatural element that disrupts the balance of the Force and therefore evil) that the Jedi will always be preferable.
>>2910 The thing about the Sith philosophy is that it can be reformed as seen with Khan and the Brotherhood of Darkness. They had the Republic completely on the ropes but fell into the same trap that Hitler did. Ruusan was their Stalingrad and I think that if they did not try to put all of their eggs in one basket and overextend their garrisons just to take one planet, they could have destroyed both the Republic and the Jedi Warlords.
>>2910 Here's how I see it. Jedi: -Repress personal interests in favor of supporting literally everyone. -Keep as many beings as possible alive regardless of their living/mental/physical standards. -Quantity over quality -Anti-eugenics Basically, say someone is born mentally ill and in agony every single day of their life. Jedi will advocate to keep that pitiful sack of flesh alive because muh Force in all things, muh living beings. Sith: -Personal interest creates strength, conviction, and drive -Living beings aren't inherently special unless they're useful or dangerous to you -Quality over quantity -Cutthroat environment leads to survival of the fittest, highly eugenic Sure, you can claim that Sith side is edgy, but that's because it deals in topics that are considered taboo in modern polite society, and modern polite society is far from infallible or even "good".
>>2910 >le edgy 15 year olds Bullshit. The Sith Empire is a pure and simple meritocracy. A core philosophy is literally "The strongest must rule if we're to survive". Jedi: -Will use the greater good to justify any and all of their actions Sith: -"Because I want/can" is more than enough justification.

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