>he doesn't fall to the Dark Side because of the brutality of war If that were enough to turn a Jedi bad you'd think there would be more of them in the past 1000 years.

>>2226 There wasn't really much in the way of war in the past 1000 years.

>>2226 Well we didn't knew much about the Jedi Order from the movies or how many they were. The Jedis were also shown to be more religious and spiritual, than they are shown in later media. Back then I also didn't have the impression like they were warriors, they were monks only owning the lightsaber for self defense and honorable duels. What would a courtly knight/monk think, if he was suddenly forced to fight in the sci fi version of World War 1? Yoda talks about how Darth Vader was consumed by the Dark Side(Sith aren't mentioned) and how easily that can happen, if one joins a fight. This had pacifistic undertones to me and when Yoda&Obi Wan try to stop Luke from going to save his friends, it sounded like they feared the fighting would change him like his father. This theme is then echoed in Return of the Jedi, where Luke basically wins against the Emperor and managed to change his father by staying true to these pacifistic teachings of the Jedi and controls his anger. There was a spiritual fight between Obi Wan/Yodo/Luk on one side and Darth Vader/Emperor on the other which played a bigger role than the actual swordfighting that happened, like they struggle over the salvation of the soul. Its a higher goal, but also one which is easy to see wouldn't survive the reality on a battlefield in a war.

>>2231 >>2227 The problem is that Anakin wouldn't be the only one to turn Sith by the end of the prequels. Palpatine would've created a bunch of them by accident.

>OT Purist redditor The Clone Wars is window dressing for Anakin's descent into becoming a Sith, the same way that the Rebellion against the Empire becomes the backdrop in which Luke redeems his father and becomes a Jedi. Even still I generally really like the Clone Wars as presented in the PT and supplemental media. The Republic being corrupt and the Jedi Order being complacent mirror's the conditions in which such leaders such as Caesar or Hitler come into power. The Jedi are faced with the paradox of being peacekeepers vs. generals all the while dancing to the tune of Sidious and falling into a trap designed to ensnare them all, along with moral questions such as whether using clones is ethical or the validity of the Separatist's criticisms of the Republic. I also think that Anakin being whiny isn't a bad thing, he is meant to be troubled, with tragic flaws that eventually seduces him into the dark side. The imposing figure we see is the result of his crippling on Mustafar and the 20 years of being a hardened enforcer of the Emperor's will. It echoes many tragic myths and legends from Antiquity and elevates Star Wars to being a cut above most popcorn blockbuster films. People hate it because it doesn't reflect their own headcanon or whatever Zahn said in the early days of the EU, but thematically the Clone Wars presented in the PT fits with the OT to create a true Saga of films.

I remember thinking during the movies that the Jedi council must have been totally retarded. The Sith were in complete remission and nobody had seen a Sith for so long it was a big deal when just one of them turned up and started wrecking shit. They were basically stamped out or relegated to some unknown corner of the universe. Meanwhile the Jedi were some huge power on the level of the whole government. And they thought the guy who was going to "bring balance to the Force" was going to help them? Any retard should have known getting "balanced" wasn't going to end well for the Jedi council

>>2236 >balance=New Age hippie shit Balance has always meant destroying the Sith, it's never meant keeping the dark and light side at exactly 50% levels with one another.

>>2225 >already understand that Cloning means a form of Immortality Objectively false but it came from a child so that's no suprise >try to imagine how brutal a war between factions would have been, soldiers never die and meet the people that have killed them yesterday If the clones were designed to have copies of the memories of their originals who died and remained dead then they would meet the other clones who have the brain-data from their originals, whom they are completely separate entities from. This would create the illusion of what you mentioned yes. Why anyone would create such an inefficient system of cloning instead of just churning them out is beyond me >>their version of the Clone Wars is fucking lame Debatable at best > its some Mexican dude cloned to fight Mickey Mouse Robots ab absurdo Your idea is trash >>2236 The Force, the Jedi, and the Sith are space-Taoism. The Jedi become one with the Force, and live in Harmony with the nature of the universe. George Lucas describes the Dark Side is a destabilizing perversion of the Force. And contrary to how some writers portray it, the light side does not embody stoicism and cold logic. Jedi can feel positive emotions like love, duty, honor, and joy, but must be careful not to let them overcome them and twist them into the darker emotions that lead to the dark side.

>>2239 The PT jedi were totally meant to the whole stoicism thing, that is basically all that the PT pushes in regards to them and its pretty blatant. Its just impossible to totally stop emotions. Of course that doesn't mean the Sith aren't basically thousands of times worse than them in regards to the force and shouldn't be around either. Its just that by trying to erase any use of the "dark side" is a different kind of perversion, which sure as hell wouldn't be "the natural way" either.

>>2240 >Shilling for disneywars this hard The PT was incompetently made, the jedi coming across as bad was because of this, not because it was George Lucas' intention. Or maybe it was, but to show that the jedi had lost their way, not that paradoxical "balancing" of balance and imbalance should be a thing

>>2241 I literally said that the sith shouldn't exist, thats not exactly balanced. And yes that was literally what i was implying, the PT jedis were corrupt from corrosion of age. And legends also had the same concept, Lukes order had a lot more leeway. Its not a new concept, though it is a concept a lot of people manage to take to the dumber point of thinking a group that has warped reality before is good for balance. I don't even know Yidsney canon enough to know how they handle """balancing""".

>>2225 >>2236 >only watch the Star Wars Trilogy on VHS >then skip straight to the prequels The RLM presence sure is strong here tonight.

>>2225 >be a child in the 90s >know the toys since forever >the first SW story I read is the "Dark Lords of the Sith" comic >first SW movie I watch in theaters is TPM >then watch the Star Wars Trilogy when Star Wars was shown on public TV I didn't really think too much about the clone wars at that time but I think the version we saw was pretty interesting, especially since the line between right and wrong wasn't as clear. One thing that was different than I imagined was the timespan. The way characters in the OT talked about it I assumed a much longer time would have passed between the clone wars and then. But I guess that is just because the prequels weren't planned out at that point. >>2241 I do think the Jedi were supposed to be too puritan and yet also contradicting their teachings when it suits their way. Such as when they serve as general in the war or the "He's too dangerous to be kept alive" line people like to point out. And in the OT, actually goes against their teachings. He tries to bring his father back to the light and successfully does so, despite Obi-Wan saying that he's beyond saving. The order saw people who have fallen to the dark as lost, but clearly that was wrong and there was still hope to save them. That isn't to say the Jedi order at that point was completely wrong, it obviously worked for a long time, but it wasn't the one true perfect way they saw themselves as.

>>2233 >The problem is that Anakin wouldn't be the only one to turn Sith by the end of the prequels. Palpatine would've created a bunch of them by accident. Sith aren't mentioned in the original trilogy and the lack of other force user could have been explained by the Clone War wiping the Jedi Religion out. >>2235 >The Republic being corrupt and the Jedi Order being complacent mirror's the conditions in which such leaders such as Caesar or Hitler come into power. That reasoning is flawed, since neither Hitler nor Caesar orchestrated the war that allowed them to raise to power, also Palpatine is clearly a better stand in for such characters than Darth Vader, who is just an enforcer for such a person. This is also one of my other gripes with the development of Star Wars, the fight of the Rebellion versus the Empire is similar to the Media depiction of the Resistance in WW2 against Nazi Germany, meaning the Galactic Civil War was their stand-in for World War 2 and the Clone Wars should have been their World War 1. But now the Prequels have come and suddenly the Clone Wars was their World War 2 stand-in. >I also think that Anakin being whiny isn't a bad thing, he is meant to be troubled, with tragic flaws that eventually seduces him into the dark side. >The imposing figure we see is the result of his crippling on Mustafar and the 20 years of being a hardened enforcer of the Emperor's will. It echoes many tragic myths and legends from Antiquity and elevates Star Wars to being a cut above most popcorn blockbuster films. The problem is that we had characters in big Hollywood movies that did the same, but much much better. Rambo could be a whiny cunt at times and has some serious character flaws, but since we know of his experience in Vietnam it becomes tolerable. Meanwhile the Clone Wars as represented by the Prequels and accompanying media fails to be Anakin's Vietnam or any other war. I could accept if they tried to make him some type of Achilles character, but the Anakin the Prequels gave us is a less cartoonishly evil version of a Joffrey Baratheon. >>2239 >ab absurdo You are right that my view of Cloning back then is false, but at this point you are wrong. The public already has seen how a Killer Robot should look like in big Hollywood movies like Terminator and Judge Dredd, then Episode 1 comes out and the Droid Army is some goofy non threatening Comic relief that gets defeated by the equally goofy Gungans. This was far removed from the believable militarism shown by the Empire in the original Trilogy. Then Episode 2 came out and we are told that these robot jokes are such a threat that the Republic needs an army. And what army do they get? An army composed of clones of the least threatening and professional looking guy you could find. Jango Fett is about as impressive as Chakotay from Star Trek Voyager. >>2245 Comics weren't popular in Germany in the 90s like in the USA, there were no Star Wars TV specials in Germany, I didn't read books as a child and I didn't own a PC since I was a Playstation kid. The only other Star Wars media that was accessible to me were the awful Ewoc movies and the terrible CGI VHS remaster they did for the original trilogy. Also franchises like Star Wars exists because of the movies, if the movies turn to shit don't expect to people to waste more time on them. The TV series and Games done for the Prequels didn't salvage the mess they were.

>>2250 >Comics weren't popular in Germany in the 90s like in the USA Maybe not as popular as in the US but they were still easily available.

>whining about the prequels thread #371 You can go back to r/starwars anytime, faggot.

>>2235 you make salient points. there's alot I like about the prequels thematically, but they have flaws in execution and timeframe. their execution issues have been discussed at length, so I'll focus on timeframe. I think the clone wars are placed too close to the OT, they should've been moved back by at least a few decades. of course, you'd have to tell a different story, as Anakin would've grown up somewhere around the end of the Clone Wars and Sheev's consolidation of power. he'd have to train as a Jedi after Order 66, maybe as an initial resistance movement, and then be seduced into Palpatine's service, and savagely turn on the remaining Jedi. you could maybe have a parallel to the OT and the throne room scene, but with the opposite outcome. idk, I'd have to think about this some more. but one thing's for sure, it seems like by Episode IV, the Galactic Empire has become entrenched and wrought considerable changes to the galaxy, and the time lapse between III and IV doesn't seem sufficient to account for this. at the same time, you need a single generational gap between Luke and Vader, because Vader is Luke's father, not grandfather. it seems like the logical solution is to set the Clone Wars further back.

>>2253 Christ, you type like the worst kind of redditscum. Please leave, this board it small enough when you people come everyone can tell immediately.

>>2254 >no unorthodox spacing >no political correct behavior >no homosexual tendencies What did you see?

>>2255 I assume it's the wording. Makes you sound like a faggot.

>>2254 I've been on chans since 2008 ffs. do you really believe a plebbitor would find their way to the bunkers? >>2256 there's nothing wrong with my wording, in fact this is the first time I've gotten this. all I can think of is my large vocabulary which I tend to use, as I'm not a brainlet.

>>2256 >Makes you sound like a faggot. I'm not even him, but i did not see anything wrong other than speaking in personal terms, which isn't bad taking into account it's personal tastes/experiences.

>>2258 maybe that's what he's responding to, my use of uncertainty and first-person perspective. I can see how that might come across too soft, but as you said, I'm referring to personal opinions and half-formulated ideas, so it fits the context.

>>2253 This is a difficult dilemma to handle. A longer gap between the trilogies makes for stronger worldbuilding and yet the established familial relationships between the characters constrain its width. Not to mention that the Faustian tragedy of Anakin embracing the Dark Side to save Padme and killing her in the process is one of the best parts of the general prequel storyline and it's hard to place it anywhere outside of where George had it take place.

>>2243 >thats not exactly balanced Well george lucas considers the sith to be imbalance, so removing them would balance the force.

>>2262 Yeah that was just dumb wording on my part, i meant that and the later parts of my post can blatantly confirm that. Its still a retarded mistake of a sentence though.

>>2250 >That reasoning is flawed, since neither Hitler nor Caesar orchestrated the war that allowed them to raise to power, also Palpatine is clearly a better stand in for such characters than Darth Vader, who is just an enforcer for such a person. Does it matter in-universe whether the conditions the led to Palpatine's were his doing or some matter of external force? Neither the PT or the OT are meant to be straight allegories of real world events rather than being applicable to them while still being their own thing. While the Empire had influences from Germany in WW2, in reality it is quite different and that design cue is merely one of a series of ingredients to the recipe of Star Wars. You can't even compare the Clone Wars or the GCW to the 20th century world wars anyway, as both were civil conflicts more closer to the American Civil War (the Clone Wars especially) than anything else. >Meanwhile the Clone Wars as represented by the Prequels and accompanying media fails to be Anakin's Vietnam or any other war. I could accept if they tried to make him some type of Achilles character, but the Anakin the Prequels gave us is a less cartoonishly evil version of a Joffrey Baratheon. I suggest you read the Jabiim arc of Star Wars: Republic if you want a war is hell story with Anakin at center stage. Anakin is meant to be a very troubled and flawed character, with his obsessive attachment to those he loves (his mother, Padme) leading him to be seduced by Sidious. It does not matter if he is likable as that is subjective-tier redditor swill that takes feelings as actual facts. What truly matters is that he is a CONSISTENT character and in the PT Anakin acts fairly consistent throughout. Anakin isn't "cartoonishly evil" at all, his flaws come from a very real and human place, which leads him to make a Faustian pact with Star Wars figurative devil figure. I think you are disappointed because you fell into the same trap many other Star Wars fans did and imagined Anakin as some PTSD-ridden Darth Rambo and got mad when it didn't match up to what was on-screen.

After seeing the Republic in the prequels was I the only one rooting for the Sith the entire time?

>>2260 it would be easier if the prequels could just be shifted back, but as you said, the gap of a single generation constrains this. that's why I thought of moving the clone wars further back relative to the prequel story. but then you lose other things, like the parallel between clone wars and Anakin's fall (akin to the civil war and Luke's rise), the tragedy of Padme (as you mentioned), etc. it seems like any decision you make requires sacrifices, and George's sacrifice was an insufficient interlude between III and IV.

>>2277 You mean the republic that was run by a sith chancelor?

>>2284 Sith weren't really in charge till they were elected democratically.