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Swoleness and Star Trek

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Anonymous 09/30/2019 (Mon) 02:45:34 No.495
Top 3 favorite episodes of TNG?
I would probably need to rewatch all of TNG to answer that properly.
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The Neutral Zone
Q Who
Family
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inner light
>>511
/thread.
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Inner light is probably my favorite, but I won't say it because everyone says either Inner Light or BoBW. In no particular order:
>Redemption
>Ship in a Bottle
>The Most Toys
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>>519
>Redemption

Jolan-tru
>>495
- The Best of Both Worlds
- Descent
- Measure of a Man

I'm not a big TNG fan tbh.
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any one with my wife ro laren
Not in any particular order, but:
>Measure of a Man
>The Inner Light
>Conspiracy
>Cause and Effect
>Lower Decks
>All Good Things
>Yesterdays Enterprise
>>537 >>524 >Measure of a Man Why does Data need to go on trial to gain official recognition as a sentient lifeform when that Holodeck character Geordi accidentally created as an opponent for Data in a Sherlock Holmes simulation was seemingly acknowledged as sentient right away by Picard? If the Enterprise Computer can shit out technically sentient holodeck programs at will why is Data considered unique and why aren't Federation Starships equipped with standardized near-sentient main Computers to increase their operating efficiency? It is most illogical.
>>757 Somebody never watched The Ultimate Computer.
>>495 The Best of Both Worlds All Good Things... Descent
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>>495 Yesterday's Enterprise Cause and Effect Tapestry
>>757 That trial wasn't about Picard recognizing data's sentience but about the unresolved question of official legal recognition of his rights and status. It's also shit I would think had come up when he tried to join star fleet. I mean, what did star fleet regard him as before that trial? A walking computer with a military rank and command authority but isn't a person? The real problem you seem to be getting at is the divide between AI's in star trek, and holographic programs, that are some how not considered AI's. Consider how in voyager star fleet uses their EMH's as slave labour in mines and how in Picard, even after having banned all research and use of AI's for a decade or more, they still use emergency holograms with near human intelligence without pause. The only explanation would be that holographic intelligence's and AI's are somehow not the same thing in Star Trek.
>>757 >>852 You missed the point. Data was not acknowledged to have rights because he was intelligent, but because he was unique. A run-of the mill hologram, even the EMH, isn't the same thing out of the box. It wasn't until the Doctor's program ran for a really long time and grew in complexity and capability that it went from mindless surgical machine to a person. The problem here is a lot of people think there is a hard line between "not sentient" and "sentient", similar to one between "not alive" and "alive". In reality, there is no such line. There is a smooth gradient of complexity from rocks to crystals to prions to viruses to bacteria to animals to apes to protohumans to modern humans. The same thing applies here. Is the Enterprise computer self-aware and intelligent? Sure. But it doesn't have rights and isn't "alive" because it's not unique; there are infinite identical copies of its program back at Starfleet HQ. I don't actually know the timeline with Data off the top of my head. But if he "joined" Starfleet shortly after Soong activated him, he'd have been a blank slate program that hadn't yet developed the uniqueness required to achieve personhood, and probably when that happened nobody in Starfleet expected him to grow to the degree he did. This smooth gradient of complexity patches what seems like a plot hole perfectly.
>>853 That's an utterly retarded line of reasoning if you think about it for even a second. It's not the number of copies of a mind that determines if it's sentient. The doctor, being a hologram, can be copied, and that copy will also be sentient if run on a sufficiently powerful computer. They do this in show. You are right in the difference between smart computer program designed to emulate human behavior, like your average hologram, and something like Moriarty or the doctor, that are so complex as to be indistinguishable from human style sentience is fluid and hard to define. I would argue that the difference is mainly a question of processing power and complexity, but that is besides the point. All the same, it is not Data's uniqueness that makes him sentient. He wouldn't become less self aware or intelligent just because you copied him. Case in point, B4 and Lore, being almost exactly the same as Data. When he joined Starfleet, was commissioned as an officer, earned his promotion to lieutenant commander and was given a post as 3rd officer on the fleets flagship, isn't important, only that it happened before the series started is. What is important however, is that he was given these things, and that Starfleet doesn't hand these things out to pocket calculators. His rank gives him command authority, so Starfleet must trust his judgement enough to let him order around other officers, and not only that, but put him in a position to command the fleets most prestigious ship whenever the two highest ranking officers aren't on the bridge or in the event they are incapacitated. Why would starfleet give Data this kind of authority if they don't trust his ability to make decisions like any other officer of that rank? You'd think a question like "is Data a person who can make decisions or a piece of property" would have come up some time before Starfleet made him an officer with command authority. Are there a lot of starfleet officers that aren't considered intelligent enough to be sentient running around somewhere? Did archer set some kind of horrible precedent by finally making porthos an actual starfleet officer or something?
>>857 The whole thing with the Doctor's "program" being copied broke the established logic that the franchise was working with and I hate it for that reason. I hate the existence of B4 and that he was supposed to be a "replacement" for Data despite doing nothing to earn it, even more. It's like they're afraid of character death and so come up with contrived situations to avoid it, but then think "oh shit wait" when they realize they remove all narrative tension when they make a character functionally immortal. What reason do we ever have to worry about the Doctor being in harm's way if they could have just stored another copy of his program somewhere in Voyager's computers? What reason would we have to be concerned about Data if Soong can just shit out another android and it'd be "almost exactly the same". Starfleet, by and large, seems to be an expert at throwing the proverbial spaghetti at the wall and seeing what sticks, and not changing anything unless they have to. I'm sure the question over Data's sentience came up a time or two, but because he functioned in the capacity granted him, so they just shrugged it off and kicked the can down the road. Maybe, before then, there just had never been someone who ever proposed taking him apart and trying to make more. Or they just figured that machine intelligence in command positions was a natural evolution of technology, and it would free up the living humans to do science and art and other such Federation shit. After all, there is PROBABLY a precedent where the Enterprise computer can take command and warp the ship out of danger if everyone on board is incapacitated because of exposure to antithorium gas radiation from a reverse-folded dogcum nebula. It also depends how you see command authority on a starship aka a Navy. Is everyone on board below the Captain's rank just a tool to be used at his discretion? Because if so, whether that tool is a person or a machine intelligence doesn't make much of a difference. Picard "trusts" Data to be third in command, but he also "trusts" the replicator to serve him tea, Earl Grey, hot and not cyanide, and he "trusts" the warp core to not have a programming malfunction that causes it to instantly breach. The idea that people could think Data is a soulless machine despite being capable at his JOB isn't really a stretch if we assume these are people who still believe in magical, immeasurable, undefined things such as souls. The judge lady even said something to that effect in the episode. >Are there a lot of starfleet officers that aren't considered intelligent enough to be sentient running around somewhere? No reason why not. I'm sure they could find some kind of menial task for them to do so they can contribute, even if that's just sweeping the floors.

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