Dconf has ended, I have commented the time stamps for each talk (except day 1, someone else did that). For people who use the SponsorBlock addon, I have submitted the Intermissions. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzuKqiFVNZM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXTlafzlJVY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMrb6ZWhqXs For more information on the talks the schedule is here https://dconf.org/2023/

>>25102 Excellent. Thanks for all the hard work, Twilight. So, one of the language's important principals is closely associated with Ucora. Can you give me any further insights on them beyond link-related, Anon? https://www.ucora.com/about/

>>25103 Here is the forum post that announced there involvement with the D foundation, that should hopefully give you an idea of what the relationship is and what they are doing for the foundation. https://forum.dlang.org/post/[email protected] Hope this answers your question

>>25126 Thanks for the link Anon, I'll peruse it.

So I learned something different that could be very significant for robust error free waifus. I'm looking at Ada language for kicks. I start following links and find something I didn't know. Adacore which is connected with Adafruit a company that makes lots of different single board computers and electronics parts is really into Ada. Especially Spark programming language. Spark is a subset of Ada used to trim down and make it even more safe. The idea being that you have to declare everything and the compiler catches most every mistake to leverage out bugs. Hackaday has an article on this. Some say it;s BS but a lot say that Spark, and Ada, really crush the likelihood of bugs. There's no doubt that lots of things that just have to work, space shuttles, space stations, F-22, F-15 and lots of medical equipment use Ada or Ada Spark and have strong protections against surprise bugs. https://hackaday.com/2019/09/10/why-ada-is-the-language-you-want-to-be-programming-your-systems-with/ I found a video where Nvidia says they are going to move to all spark programming because of so many of their chips used in task critical areas like self driving. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YoPoNx3L5E Here's a link on learning Ada and Spark, https://learn.adacore.com/ In the link below it gives a huge number of mission critical items that used Spark. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SPARK_(programming_language) While Spark and Ada may not be glamorous or crafty like LISP they often work exactly as programmed without surprises the first time. Worth thinking about. I wonder are there tools that will accomplish the same thing with C++ or other languages without using Ada or Spark? https://www.hackster.io/adacore

>>25214 You know I think a lot of you Grommet, so please don't take this personally, but > Adafruit They are a great iconization of Leftists in general, and will be no friends to /robowaifu/ and our ilk once the 'rubber meets the road', so to speak. The name itself should be a big tipoff. Simply research the founding/history of the organization, Anon. Use them; that's fine as long as you take everything related to them with a big grain of salt. I'd personally much prefer Newark or Black Box for supply of electronics, etc. Not only are they much more well-established in the engineering domains, they are much less likely to be completely overrun by Filthy Commies. :^) > Ada I've mentioned the benefits of Ada numerous times here on the board; also why I feel it is primarily-disqualified for us. The hardware onboard aircraft doesn't 'magically' get safety just because Ada is being used there. It still requires strict engineering discipline and rigorous testing (at huge costs: Ada is a very expensive language to use in general). And no system is 100% safe. > I wonder are there tools that will accomplish the same thing with C++ Both D and C++ can be written in highly safe ways. However D has other challenges for us here, so I can't recommend it (at least yet). C++ has a very strong impetus for a pared-down, sensible/sane usage of the language known as the C++ Core Guidelines [1], which I intend to teach some of the most important basics of in our secondary classes here (including automated tools for checking CPPCG compliance). 1. https://isocpp.github.io/CppCoreGuidelines/CppCoreGuidelines >=== -prose edit

>>25215 >don't take this personally No. I had heard of them(...a great iconization of Leftists...)but actually came at them through Ada. I found that the adafruit people somehow have some sort of affiliation, however tenuous, with Ada which I didn't know about. They link each other. The people that did Ada I think made it too much by committee. The Ada fanatics say the newer versions have fixed a lot of this. They have further fixed this, I believe, by paring it down to a subset called Spark. Probably the most retarded name for for software ever. How many things are called Spark? Way too many. When you say Ada is "expensive" I think of it totally differently. It's well thought out, takes a whole approach to things and is not a hacked up abomination that C is. (I've been reading the "Unix Haters Handbook" again) If these people had real smarts they would make a good higher level Spark program, like they have, then they would get some sort of miracle C/C++ hacker and make an extensive C/C++ program that would test all the basics of the registers and all other functions of a processor or microprocessor, (in C/C++), and then just read what it compiled to. Then equate the complied machine code results to Spark commands and back compile a compiler for every processor they could find while leaving the high level Spark tools and programming syntax in place. There's not enough compilers for Spark for all the processors and making them is not easy. Why they don't use computers to do the things they are supposed too, drudgery work, and automate it. I have no idea. Likely because the Ada people hate C and the C people hate Ada so nothing good ever happens. Worse is better. I fully, I believe, understand why you like C/C++ so much. It gives you complete control but unless you have years of experience it can cause all sorts of grief. Stuff like Spark and Ada are essentially boring as they do things the right way. Ever heard, I know you have, the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worse_is_better That's what C/C++ is, worse. Let's note that while C/C++ might be easy to whip something up. All the time you spent with all the gotchas and memorizing all the gotchas you could have spent a little more time with something like Ada and got it right in the first place. C/C++ only seem easier after spending years hacking away at it. Stuff like Ada make take longer to set up but only because you have to get it right or it just bleeps at you and tells you, you fucked up. C will take whatever you throw at it and promptly throw up bits on your keyboard.

>>25219 > conflating the ultra-pozz den Adafruit, with the 40+yo US DARPA/DoD overarching, sprawling, mandated, programming language (rapidly 'replaced' by the MIC industry using C & C++ instead, b/c of Ada's intractability fail -- especially during the first couple decades of the enforced debacle). < shiggy > I fully, I believe, understand why you like C/C++ so much. I don't 'like' C++ except insofar as it is literally the #1 most-likely means for /robowaifu/ 's successful & complete, systems software solutions; to give all of us entirely-unencumbered, practical, realworld robowaifus. > That's what C/C++ is, worse. With all due respect Anon, this is the literal last time I'm having this debate with you. Kiwi's right, you keep rehashing topics repeatedly (cf., search your own use of the term 'worse': ITT ). By all means Anon, knock yourself out. You've expressed an interest in learning how to program software. Go ahead and tackle Ada as your language of choice. GCC offers a great front-end for the language via their amazing compiler system. [1] After enough experience, you too will understand why so few engineers willingly adopt the language on a personal level in actual production systems, and why it is literally one of the most expensive approaches to software development known today. > tl;dr Let's give any further programming language discussions between us a miss, friend Grommet. If you'd like to participate in our own /robowaifu/ programming classes here, and as long as you stay on-topic (ie, C++ programming, etc.), then of course that's an exception to this mandate regarding yourself. Cheers Anon, and kind regards. :^) 1. https://gcc.gnu.org/wiki/GNAT >=== -prose edit

>>25243 >With all due respect Anon, this is the literal last time I'm having this debate with you. Kiwi's right, you keep rehashing topics repeatedly Fair enough and a fair criticism. I'll try to take it to heart. I do make mistakes and also try to admit it when I do. My apologies.

I was looking into Elixir (lang) for creating my implementation of the cognitive architecture. That said, I keep an open mind and found this here for C++: https://github.com/endurox-dev/endurox https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enduro/X >Enduro/X is an open-source middleware platform for distributed transaction processing. It is built on proven APIs such as X/Open group's XATMI and XA. The platform is designed for building real-time microservices based applications with a clusterization option. Enduro/X functions as an extended drop-in replacement for Oracle Tuxedo. The platform uses in-memory POSIX Kernel queues which insures high interprocess communication throughput. > ... AGPL It also has Python bindings. Hmm. Anyone worked with this?

>>25219 >>25214 I’m a little late (don’t have a lot of time to be checking robowaifu) but I think I can say something of value for Grommet. While good languages can have less foot guns and be designed to make mistakes harder. A language should not be chosen "for being safer" or for any other memed purpose. Are you picking Ada because it solves problems for you or are you picking it because it’s "safe and runs on my heckin airplanes TM"? >but unless you have years of experience it can cause all sorts of grief. This is true, that’s why I advice starting now and start clocking in hours and gain experience and confidence. Even if the language stops memory bugs, there are so many other mistakes can and will make. You can write good code in almost any language, Just pick a language and start writing, try to learn the language as well as you can, don’t be stuck in analysis paralysis. I guess there is some irony in me saying this in a thread called "Selecting a Programming Language" but I think it’s the most helpful thing to say. If you want safety I recommend you take a proven approach, Test everything!!! you need 100% coverage and the tests need to be good and not overfited. SQLite is a perfect example of this. It’s very reliable, runs on le hecking airplanes & is bug free while being written in pure C. it’s not a stagnant codebase of untouchable C, because the tests are good, they can afford to do large rewrites between even minor releases.

I'm played around with a rather niche language today: Lobster. It has a pythonic syntax and some ideas similar to Rust in regards to borrowing. So it might be useful for doing something that needs to be secure but easy to write. It's also quite fast, can compile to C++ as well this code then can be used for WASM (binary in the browser). The language was mainly meant for creating games, so it has a strong focus on graphics (OpenGL). I'm experimenting in a direction towards using the frames of a video made with "SadTalker" like I posted here >>26029, to have a fast way to make an avatar talk without rendering it with an AI model every time. Imagine a small program that takes in a stream of text and creates speech with the right movements of the lips, not looking human-level "realistic" but reasonably well and without any relevant lag. So for I managed to make it load images and call the text-to-speech service on Linux. Both works very fast. So fast, that I also can overlay more than one of those, so this might help with making it smooth. To make this work at some point, I will need to make a picture sequence (frames) for each syllable or something similar, and probably also with some combinations of how the head is positioned. Then the program would load those, based on the text input while also creating text to speech output. This can help to investigate animated virtual girlfriends as predecessor of robowaifus. I also imagine this to be useful for AI creating simple simulations. I don't know how to use that yet, but I have some ideas, and here's a website that inspired me: https://concepts.jtoy.net - I think about it so, that training a model to recognize a pattern in a video input (her own vision, but maybe also watching TV or a game) and match what is going in with one of those concepts. https://github.com/aardappel/lobster https://aardappel.github.io/lobster/builtin_functions_reference.html https://github.com/OpenTalker/SadTalker/tree/main

>>26092 Neat! This seems like a really promising investigation Anon. I certainly agree that Visual Waifu development, if done well, will probably clean about 50% of the tasks across the board from our table toward making great robowaifus. Please keep us up to date, NoidoDev. Cheers. :^)

>>26093 I'm struggling a bit with the Lobster language, since I'm not used to compiled languages and it is not very well documented. I tried the same thing in Python with help from chatGPT. Dev time was way shorter, only like half an hour, it takes much longer to start the program though. Now I'm looking into compressing the frames somehow by removing common areas between two images. The frames are circa 80x of the size of a short video (450MB, 256 colors).

This is VERY COOL. A "Scratch" like visual programming for micro-controllers. ESP32 included. Has a multitasking OS using byte code. OS is 16k. Can run n a browser or downloaded program. Can be used to test programs in a virtual micro-controller on the web or, I think, built in the program. http://microblocks.fun/ I've been reading a lot of Alan Kay's stuff so this makes sense.

>>26245 Okay. Not sure how much one could do with that and if it was suitable for doing something related to robowaifus, but it might come in handy.

>>26245 Neat! Thanks Grommet (good to see you BTW). I love Scratch, and think it's kind of visual interface will be highly valuable as a scripting interface for us, once robowaifus have become commonplace enough for Joe Sixpack's to be clammoring for their own.

Python Sucks And I LOVE It | Prime Reacts https://www.youtu.be/8D7FZoQ-z20 tl;dw: Execution speed is only one thing, development speed matters often more, and getting things done even more. Builtin types are in C anyways. Parts of the code can be transferred to Cython. Not mentioned: Mojo is around the corner, and based on Python.

>>26260 >Mojo is around the corner, and based on Python. Yeah, I'm curious if Modular will ever decide to end their commercial goals surrounding Mojo, and release it free as in speech to the world with no strings attached. It would be a shame for anons to get mired into some kind of Globohomo-esque tarbaby trap with something as vital to our robowaifus as her operational software. >=== -prose edit

Mojo was mentioned but no mention of Julia? I haven't had experience in either but Julia seems like it might be better for more people here that already know Python. https://www.datacamp.com/blog/julia-vs-python-which-to-learn https://exploreaiworld.com/mojo-vs-julia However when I check on some people doing benchmarks it's not uncommon for Mojo to be faster perhaps because it takes more effort to optimize Julia code or they just had a flawed method of comparison though it is possible Mojo is actually faster. However Mojo isn't even open source currently though as far as I'm aware and may never actually be, but Julia always was open source and has been around a while now. In either case both are faster than Python when dealing with large datasets as far as I can tell. Julia can call on languages like C, C++ Python and Fortran libraries. Am I mistaken or isn't this likely better than Mojo and Python? Python being popular doesn't mean it's the best, it's just a general purpose language with a simple syntax so a lot of programmers know it but the people in ML research are adapting Julia more recently at an increasing rate although it's not anywhere near popular even there just yet.

Great, newbie-friendly introduction to ASM programming [1] by one of the self-taught masters, Matt Godbolt; creator (from scratch!) of the world-class programming analysis tool, Compiler Explorer [2]. Highly recommended video for anyone trying to understand what assembler/machine-code programming is. Good investment of 20-minutes for robowaifuists, Anon! :^) >note: Also the short, old book he mentions at the beginning of the video is available on Wayback. [3] --- 1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VsiYWW9r48 2. https://godbolt.org/ 3. https://archive.org/details/machine-code-for-beginners >=== -minor edit -add 'Wayback' hotlink

>>30828 Thanks, I'll watch this when I also have time to play the "Human Resource Machine" which is a learning game for that.

Morse Code, I choose you!! :DD https://trashchan.xyz/agdg/thread/1.html#1863 >>30830 Y/w NoidoDev. Godbolt is both highly-intelligent, and unassuming at the same time. Highly recommend his platform. >=== -addl resp

Reposting my post (>>35354) from the "LLM & Chatbot General" thread, because it makes more sense in here. Packing Python is pretty cancer, PyInstaller is a heap of useless shit on some systems. May I suggest Lua instead? It has a simpele syntax, and can actually be packed in static binaries [1] and the are relatively small. The only issue would be the libraries, AFAIK there are no pure Lua LLM/AI libraries, so C bindings would need to be created. [1] https://github.com/ers35/luastatic

>>35379 its an embedded language though, youre supposed to stick the lua shell in the source code of the program and build around it to allow whatever you want the scripts to do, im guessing just sticking it in a binary that wasnt written with having a shell in mind would be no different from running the program in a debugger

>>35380 Well, it's an excellent embedded language for sure, but that doesn't mean it won't work if you aren't embedding it, and are just using it as you would with Python. I dropped Python completely from my programming workflow and replaced it with Lua completely, and have yet to run into big issues tbh

>>21072 is a fantastic combo, use languages for what they are good at >>21091 unsure what abstraction mechanisms here would reduce complexity instead of increasing it, all of the most intuitive interfaces ive seen use C style. with interfaces you want to force simplicity. "abstraction" generally just means complexity, if the interfaces accommodate complexity then the codebase will become a mess >>23461 >mojo people actually use a closed source lang??

>>36281 >mojo people actually use a closed source lang?? When I made this comment they had not released anything yet. If I remember correctly he said it was going to be open sourced. I could be wrong. You can go and watch the video if you wish but I'll not watch it again as I don't want to rehash it. I was noting that the guy doing the work had a very good track record over many projects. I looked and saw, presently, "...Modular, the company behind Mojo, has stated an intent to eventually open source the Mojo language, as it matures..." So maybe I heard right but they are not ready to open source yet to refine the code first. Not the best idea I would say but I'm really not fit to judge. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mojo_(programming_language) "...

>>36281 >unsure what abstraction mechanisms here would reduce complexity instead of increasing it The complexity human reasoning has to deal with, of course (particularly on a day-to-day basis). Abstraction is particularly-suited to such a task. >tl;dr The vast majority of us don't think meticulously about the over 9'000 different parts of an automobile involved in getting us down the road. Instead we think "Got my key? Start, Steer, Gas, Brake, Stop." That's abstraction.

>>36312 >abstraction .text .global main main: 4F 50 20 69 73 20 61 20 66 61 67 67 6F 74 ; >=== -did it for the lulz

>>36326 Lol.

>>36326 that doesnt compile though

>>36328 CBA'rsed

I ran across this and it may, but I doubt it, fulfill some of Chobitsu wishes, (C++ forever)!!!!!!, but provide a far easier method of abstraction and, if the schemers and LISP bunch can be believed, a way faster way to code all the stuff we need. Bigloo-a LISP or more specifically scheme "...The Bigloo programming language is a strict-parenthetical-function programming language. It belongs to the Lisp programming language family, and more specifically, it is a descendant of the Scheme programming language. Its design is governed by one rule: enabling Scheme-based programming style where C(++) is usually required..." Woow, get that, "where C++ usually required". I've read some papers on benchmarks for LISP and Schemes and it comes out very good. LISP can be extremely close to C++ in speed if not faster in some cases. There are even faster like Stalin LISP but I think it's more difficult to use, not well maintained and has much less documentation. http://www-sop.inria.fr/mimosa/fp/Bigloo/ The only reason I talk about LISP and schemes is that most any really accomplished programmers that I've read in interviews has always said that productivity and being able to quickly nail down a difficult implementation of any program has always been to use some LISP or scheme derivative. I think the reason it's not more popular in terms of lines of code written is it's so flexible that people have a hard time with it. It's easier to teach something that has a lot of syntax rules, and while hard to remember it does provide a bit of a guard rail when you start. My and others thoughts are that this is fine but the guard rails in the end lead to a mass of typing and tons of boilerplate that interfere with the actual code itself. It's kind of like Linux in that it's so flexible it's easy to fragment it but more popular Windows OS, well there's the Windows way and that's it. Could be wrong. I can only go what more experienced people tell me in this case.

Jet Propulsion Laboratory study "...Lisp's performance is comparable to or better than C++ in terms of execution speed, with significantly lower variability which translates into reduced project risk. Furthermore, development time is significantly lower and less variable than either C++ or Java. Memory consumption is comparable to Java. Lisp thus presents a viable alternative to Java for dynamic applications where performance is important...." https://www.cs.unm.edu/~williams/cs257/lisp-study.html

BTW Stalin scheme's motto is, "Stalin brutally optimizes"

>>36658 >>36661 >recommending system named in honor of the literal worst Filthy Commie in all human history >to an Anon that is just.this.side. of Literally Hitler CHEEKY What's next, Grommet? AntiX? :D >>36659 I applied for work at JPL after I discovered they were using C++ to do the onboard path navigation planning in their Mars rovers. Because I was a CIS White male, the HR just laughed at me of course! :D B/c of DIE & watnot thereby, they even think that using Java on deep spacecraft is a good idea! This has been a painful choice for them, heh. :) >muh_LISP )))))))))) ))))))))) )))) )) I'll stick with my semicolons, thanks! Cheers, Anon. :^)

>>36694 its not just a terminator, its an s-expression which is how the language is structured, lisp code is basically just a function tree like the syntax tree in compiled languages except it isnt one in the background that only the compiler sees, its one that is the language and you actually write it out lisp will blow your mind when you understand how it works but its academic shit i think people that talk about it dont even use it but just talk about it cuz it forces you to write better and more structured code

>>36699 Yes, I'm aware of LISP (well, Scheme at least) Anon. Are you accusing me of """[ignorant & niggardly] talking sh*te about it""" because of my (admittedly sh*te)post just there? :DDD I've laid out (and in some in detail) here before why C++ is the correct language being used by myself (and should be by us all [+Python for scriptwork]). I've done some decent amount of preliminary codework as well towards that goal here for all of us. I've made a significant effort of my own time & energy to help every other Anon to come onboard with that focus, so everyone here can all row together towards our common goal as a team. So go ahead, write a full-on robowaifu command, control, & communication software system for a realworld robowaifu, fren. Do it in any language you please (even LISP, lol). Make an honest whack at it, and we here will even offer you constructive criticism -- possibly even help. <---> But until such time as you do, please stop your niggerpill-style posting here, or find yourself getting banned. This isn't a place for you to just snidely layabout, picking at your teeth & condescendingly criticizing everyone & everything around you, and doing f*arkall else to lift a finger to help out moving this stone down the road together -- but rather lounging right in the way as an obstacle to everyone else. None of us have any issues with newcomers sharing their ideas and opinions with everyone here. We all rather enjoy that, actually -- whether they are good ideas or no. After all, we all have lots to learn here, and words of wisdom can come from practically anywhere. But you are posturing yourself as a know-it-all who simply wants to pick apart everyone & everything else, by all appearances. Such behavior is pure kikery, Mr. Wormtongue. Everyone here's tired of it, fren. >tl;dr "Put up, or shut up" they tell me (or at least so in your specific case). >>>/4cuck/ >=== -prose edit

>>36694 >What's next, Grommet? AntiX? As a matter of fact. AntiX is a Linux distribution that is in league with MXLinux which is the distro that I like best.

>>36702 Well, I assure you that Pantyfags and their ilk won't be welcomed here, fren.

>>36701 was just elaborating on what hes talking about, your friends call it being inclusive/pragmatic, whats with this stupid navel gazing and talking about the best shorts to wear for the race all the time

>>36702 AntiX in LEAGUE with MXLinux It's all a huge conspiracy!

>>36703 >Well, I assure you that Pantyfags and their ilk won't be welcomed here I was mostly joshing. I expect the AntiX I speak of has nothing to do with the one you are talking about, which I haven't clue what that is. I was talking about this one. https://antixlinux.com/

>>36706 >your friends call it being inclusive/pragmatic < inclusive My frens avoid that now-(((contaminated))) word like the plague, I can assure you. I'll offer my apologies if I've mistaken you for yet another dour-mouthed individual that frequents this board. My advice to you would then just be "if you can't say anything good, then don't say anything at all", purportedly by your Mom! :D This is quite hard-enough of a struggle to accomplish all this without naysayers dwelling in the midst of us. >tl;dr It's "together, we're all gonna make it" here, so thanks for making positive contributions (constructive criticisms, actual solutions, etc.) instead. Cheers, Anon. >>36718 >I was talking about this one. Well, then please don't send any of them our way, Grommet. This is all quite difficult enough without having literal enemies to our cause right here in the midst with us. Cheers, Anon. :^)

>>36722 ????? I thought they were just some lite resource Linux??????

>>36722 yeah its fine, i get blow outs too, point is you dont have the luxury of being exclusive and that was an #include/#pragma joke

>>128 I'd say for code that is going to make up parts of it that are going to be called often, like if you were to add a GPU into the robots to be its "brain" to navigate around like a human would (and have reflects and spacial awareness and so on), then this should be written with something like C or C++. The other, "higher level" stuff, can be written in a scripting language so it's easier for people to contribute to and isn't going to affect performance/power efficiency that much. You'll often see this with video games. Where the main engine, that'd rending the graphics on the screen and doing the heavy lifting, is all C/C++. Then for things like your quest system, you might use something like Lua or Python so it's easy for even novice programmers to add new things into the game (they're working with simple scripts that hide the complexities of the engine and let them focus on making things). You'll also see this with game mods too, it's a tried and tested approach. If you're curious, look into something like "plugin architecture" - essentially it's dead simple to make mods or plugins this way. the application itself has a /plugin or /mods folder, you just copy in the script files as their own folder and that's it, when the application starts it scans that folder and integrates it. So now even a brainlet can extend the main functionality and not have to do anything complex.

We've discussed Formal Verification here before : ( <several posts I can't find right now b/c we don't have a perfect index of the board in our Library thread, and I don't have Waifusearch on this box>(lol), >>33900, et al). F* seems rather rigorous, and likely would be very handy for us to master here for several crit-secs of our C3 robowaifu systems codebase. https://fstar-lang.org/

>>36736 >and that was an #include/#pragma joke Lol. Me and my fast lightning mind missed that one. :D >>36776 >The other, "higher level" stuff, can be written in a scripting language so it's easier for people to contribute to and isn't going to affect performance/power efficiency that much. I get the argument, Anon. But the simple truth is that yuge swaths of 'judgement-oriented' code (ie, such as is pertinent for >>10000, et al) are both high-level, and have to execute lightning fast to be of any realworld, practical use. If we have to just go on without any command outputs for, say, 10 seconds (or even 1 second) while Python parses it's complex decision trees to decide if -- while 200kg robowaifu is merrily rolling along in the kitchen cleaning things up after dinner -- she should continue driving over the baby now surprisingly lying on the floor directly in her pathway or should she stop first before that happens... then lots & lots of bad things will ensue! :DD >You'll often see this with video games. Again, completely understood. OTOH, most times people don't actually die in the realworld while vidya'g. Robowaifus (and robots in general) can actually kill you accidentally. >tl;dr It's complicated. :^) >=== -sp, prose edit