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Fundamental Design Ideas that should ALWAYS be accounted for Grommet 07/19/2023 (Wed) 01:59:58 No.24047
So I'm thinking about design and realize some mistakes I made. There is likely no better short cut to advancing design than these fundamental principles as stated by Elon Musk. 1. Make The Requirements Less Dumb “Step one: Make the requirements less dumb. The requirements are definitely dumb; it does not matter who gave them to you. It’s particularly dangerous when they come from an intelligent person, as you may not question them enough. Everyone’s wrong. No matter who you are, everyone is wrong some of the time. All designs are wrong, it’s just a matter of how wrong,” explains Musk. 2. Try And Delete Part Of The Process “Step two: try very hard to delete the part or process. If parts are not being added back into the design at least 10% of the time, [it means that] not enough parts are being deleted. The bias tends to be very strongly toward ‘let’s add this part or process step in case we need it’. Additionally, each required part and process must come from a name, not a department, as a department cannot be asked why a requirement exists, but a person can,” says Musk. 3. Simplify Or Optimize “Step three: simplify and optimize the design. This is the most common error of a smart engineer — to optimize something that should simply not exist,” according to Musk. He, himself, has been a victim of implementing these steps out of order. He refers to a “mental straightjacket” that happens in traditional schools where you always have to answer the question regardless of whether the premise makes any sense at all. 4. Accelerate Cycle Time “Step four: accelerate cycle time. You’re moving too slowly, go faster! But don’t go faster until you’ve worked on the other three things first,” explains Musk. Here he uses another example of how these steps should occur in order. During a wrongheaded process you should simply stop, not accelerate. He says, “If you’re digging your grave, don’t dig it faster.” 5. Automate “The final step is: automate. An important part of this is to remove in-process testing after the problems have been diagnosed; if a product is reaching the end of a production line with a high acceptance rate, there is no need for in-process testing. I have personally made the mistake of going backwards on all five steps multiple times. In making Tesla’s Model 3, I literally automated, accelerated, simplified and then deleted,” says Musk. https://cleantechnica.com/2021/08/16/elon-musk-reveals-his-5-step-engineering-protocol/ I would also add Elon Musk, "secret sauce", to achieving extraordinary things: "First principles" thinking, a decision-making strategy in which you "boil things down to their fundamental truths and reason up from there, as opposed to reasoning by analogy." One last one is you should always look at the least cost for materials that will serve the purpose that you are attempting to create. A very "First principles" sort of thing because if they cost too much no one will be able to afford them. --- > thread-related : (>>4143) >=== -add crosslink -spoiler Elon "War-Crimes Are Cool" Musk pic :D
Edited last time by Chobitsu on 11/29/2023 (Wed) 02:52:46.
Okay, but this should be in /meta or another thread.
>>24048 > /meta or another thread meta? Hell no, this is a major fundamental method of being more productive and how to organize thoughts to do so.
These are some seriously good concepts Anon, thanks! BTW I'll add a crosslink for our How to solve it thread into your OP. Cheers. :^)
Those are good points but fall short of people working together as a unit. This is not supposed to be a game jam where everyone does their own thing. And the only way to do so is with a decision making mechanism where everyone decides what we're going to work on and then we all work on it. There is no alternative as far as I can tell. Musk is the ceo of a corporation so I'm assuming his structure is top down. We can do this thing democratically but not this free for all anarchy nonsense. If you don't believe me ask chatgpt if you can run a project without a decision making mechanism or bard.
>>24121 >This is not supposed to be a game jam where everyone does their own thing. There is no alternative as far as I can tell. This board is like a meeting place. Groups don't need to be identical with all the people on the board. People online are not the same as a corporation.
>>24121 >good points have you taken the flame-diverters-are-dumb-pill or the coiled-pipes-not-needed-for-regenerative-cooling-pill yet, even the faa doesnt believe actual engineers willingly allowed this cockamamie with this idiot larping as an engineer telling them to remove arbitrary critical components
>>24123 I'd say the main problem with elon musk is that he has too much money and should start giving some of it away desu.
Open file (120.75 KB 986x501 greenmollusc.jpeg)
>>24128 to the contrary, musk is a carbon-credit pimp, no one should be forced to give their money to anyone, the government should just stop all wealth redistribution entirely, get rid of all the """green""" (codeword for a global tax payed to chosen oligarchs) """initiatives""" and the world enters an overdue golden age
>>24129 This thread is becoming more and more political.
>>24123 >>24128 >>24129 Don't turn this into 'I hate Elon' thread -- stay on topic please. Questioning or debating the validity or invalidity of the 5 principles involved in the OP is perfectly fine of course. Otherwise, move it to the /meta or +/pol threads. TIA. :^)
>>24123 On your #3 picrel, is that a shot from the ground of rocket engines burning or something?
>>24138 yeah its the engines mid flight before the piece of junk exploded, you see several of the engines failed 3 of them failed before it even left the launch pad which was totally destroyed along with everything surrounding the site because the idiot insisted on a shock wave equivalent to a ton of tnt being no big deal, what...qualified and intelligent people say otherwise? well rule1 theyre wrong flame trench? only a nazi would do that, thats dumb just simplify it just get rid of it flooding the launch site with water thats dumb you know the saying keep it stupid stupid, yeah we built the launch site next to a body of water but thats just for aesthetics who ever drew the plans is just dumb fill that big hole with concrete please even the first v2 rockets which were tiny had at least cones as flame deflectors no one is this stupid and its not like no one working on that junk site didnt expected this either, the engine failure was a notorious problem of these overly complicated (oh the irony) ffsc engines that the soviets developed, they couldnt solve the overly complicated plumbing and cooling issue of these engines and ultimately abandoned them in a warehouse which ended up forgotten until someone stumbled across them decades later and auctioned them off to a naive billionaire
>>24139 Lol, you're still focusing on Elon the man, and not the potential fallacy involved in one of the points. Just a quick analysis from my amateur, unaided eye suggest that maybe > 2. Try And Delete Part Of The Process > 3. Simplify Or Optimize while clearly sound ideas, also have to be measured out with wisdom. For example as yourself point out about the acoustical dynamics involved with something such as a MULTI-MILLION POUND THRUST rocket launch site, might need just a teensy-weensy bit of accommodation. Fair enough Anon? :^)
>>24139 >the idiot insisted on a shock wave equivalent to a ton of tnt being no big deal He tested this in a less than full power engine test and it worked. His reasoning for doing what he did was to test the same sort of technique for Mars and the Moon where he will not be able to build a huge flame diverter. If you pay attention to what he "says", all this speculation about what he does evaporates. He tells you. He doesn't care if the first rocket didn't make orbit. He would not even care if it blew up. He has many more already mostly to completion. He only spends millions for each of these compared to billions for other large rocket companies. People really hate him for some reason. I can only speculate that it's because certain people, well all of us at times, feel others get to much acclaim. I've been following him since the early electric car days. I like electric cars for national defense and autonomy reasons. They can cut your gas off but if you have solar or any massive number of ways to make electricity then they can't strand you with no fuel. Very congruent with robowaifus except it stops the pussy cut off. One thing I do disagree on is I like hybrids or a trailer with an engine towed behind for long trips. He should have a plug in the back for this. These sort of principles he talks about he has done so for a very long time. Every single subsidy he has received is ALL from subsidies elected by the US Congress well before he made any of this stuff. All of them are related to Defense. Electric, obvious, rockets, obvious also. The rocket subsidies came from a proposal way back in the Bush I administration from the "Citizens Advisory Space Council" because the asshole looting evil Boeing and Lockheed apparently refused to make rockets and only lined their pockets with cash. They did this for decades and produced only one rocket which flew recently. A big ass costly turkey that had cumulative cost of $40 billion or better in development and is not reusable. You have no idea the depth of hatred I have for these criminals because I am very pro space travel (if the cost can be contained) and they just looted all the cash needed for this. BTW I think Mars settlements are stupid. I prefer mining asteroids and building large rotating space colonies. And the people whining about subsidies, well I actually looked this up. “…Tesla Motors Inc., SolarCity Corp. and Space Exploration Technologies Corp., known as SpaceX, together have benefited from an estimated $4.9 billion in government support…” Now this is ALL of his companies as of 2015 and worth every penny. If you are upset by his wealth now, just wait, "if", the whole entire economy doesn't crater his wealth will skyrocket to extraordinary heights. His long term planning in every case has many profit multipliers. Low cost rocket launch cost mean cheap satellites, means huge bundles of cash from satellite internet and phone. Same with all these electric charge stations. Very long term thinking and prescient because now GM and Ford have decided to use his stations. His fundamental thinking about these problems led him directly to where he is now. I found by using these principals it might not tell you what to do but frequently if you think this way it definitely will tell what NOT to do. I'm a fan of his not because I think he is any sort of "nice guy". I'm a fan because everything he's done is in my interest and cost me not one damn penny while all of humanity reaps the benefits.
>>24146 Grommet, just as with the other anons, please resist the urge to make this thread about Elon. Stick to the topics at hand lol. You have a good premise going here regarding these principles, don't ruin it by being baited kthx. :^)
>>24150 >don't ruin it by being baited Whoops, easy to get carried away.
>>24134 The topic is literally just OP expressing their love for the guy. You're calling out those other anons for disagreeing. OP you're acting like a cultist, you could have said all of that without inserting your celebrity into it.
>>26580 Lolwut? I think I'm pretty skeptical of the guy. OTOH, I'm not at all jelly of him and have earnest hopes for the Teslabot program. Regardless, he's certainly done the world a service regarding Xitter, even if some of the approaches to managing the thing seem bonkers to me. :D
>>26580 >The topic is literally just OP expressing their love for the guy You don't understand. One of the most valuable things in the world is to have a simple straightforward guide to operating effectively. "...you could have said all of that without inserting your celebrity into it...." He said it. He stated them in the sequence listed. These principles he stated off the cuff in an interview with everyday astronaut are pure gold. If you internalize them it will make you more effective in whatever you are doing. People for some reason really get triggered like little boys saying girls have cooties when you mention him or what he has done. And somehow admiration for most excellent productivity and changing the trajectory of several technologies on the planet, is said to be "love" or "worship" or some other derogatory term. No the guy has done a shit load of impressive things and respecting that is...just respect. Very few people in history have produced so much change in such a short time as he has. It's just a fact.
>>26590 > You don't understand. One of the most valuable things in the world is to have a simple straightforward guide to operating effectively. Do you actually think Elon is the first person that thought efficiency is good? You could ask any engineer and they would explain how important efficiency is to you. Also if you honest to god believe Elon is a genius at engineering, look at how modular and resistant Tesla cars or his rockets are. And most things he talked about don't apply because we aren't selling status symbols to the masses, we are producing robots to love. 1)Make The requirements less dumb If you made the requirements, they aren't "dumb" as long as you don't think they are dumb. Every requirement you started with should be added to the end product over time as long as there aren't any engineering difficulties and you want those features. 2) Try And Delete Part Of The Process The product should be quality checked at every step and the more check there is the better. 3)Simplify Or Optimize Good advice but some people died because he simplifyed his car's doors to the point they weren't functioning. 4)Accelerate Cycle Time That thinking of his is why Tesla factories get far more injuries than other car factories, i strongly believe Tesla factories would be closed 10 times by now if other car manifacturers ran factories as dangerous as his. 5. Automate Soo smart of him to realise industrial revolution happened. But doesn't apply to us yet because we aren't manifacturing in masses.
>>26592 You don't like his ideas, don't use them but don't pretend that stating them is worship or any of the other stuff you throw out there. No one forcing you to do anything. Ideas are not people.

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