/robowaifu/ - DIY Robot Wives

Advancing robotics to a point where anime catgrill meidos in tiny miniskirts are a reality.

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Electronics General Robowaifu Technician 09/11/2019 (Wed) 01:09:50 No.95
Electronics & Circuits Resources general

You can't build a robot w/o good electronics. Post good info about learning, building & using electronics.

One other thing, there were these alpha-numeric characters out there. No telling what they mean tbh, but w/e maybe someone can decode them or something. :^)
Digital Logic Simulator 'game'
The author calls it a game, but at the least it seems to me to be a decent learning tool for digital logic.

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>>843 I'm all for a LTO (Lithium Titanate) battery that recharges via USB C. LTO batteries are the longest lasting batteries in terms of charge and discharge. She'll last for like 20 to 30 years before needing a new battery. USB C is the ideal power delivery option as it's simple cheap and will be used for decades to come. Would also be cute as a tail.
>>1874 Yes, that's the right kind of batteries. For bots which can't be opened easily at least. For a tail I would choose lighter ones 😉 For starters in electronics I uploaded a book, which maybe I should read myself finally. Why do days only have 24h?
>>1874 >USB C is the ideal power delivery option as it's simple cheap and will be used for decades to come. Good thinking. >Would also be cute as a tail. Kek >>4332 >For bots which can't be opened easily at least. For a tail I would choose lighter ones 😉 Any chance you could give us some kind of data about the power/weight for readily available different types of batteries Anon? Is that something you have access to that could help us?
>>4340 I looked into that a while ago, mainly on Wikipedia. I found some other sites then as well, also videos on Youtube. You can spend days or weeks to read and watch stuff about that, especially if you start to be interested in others, like for cars and solar cells... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_battery_types Here the rechargeable types, with comparisons: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rechargeable_battery My takeaway is using LTOs (Lithium-Titaniumoxide) for bots where you won't able to replace the batteries at all or only with a lot of effort. These are the ones you can recharge the most often before the become trash. They're a bit heavier for the same energy density. But, they also are safer than Litium-Ion bc more stable and less sensitive to destruction. Sometimes they invent new ones, so there might be something better now. Batteries out of plastics will be interesting, if the can be recharged often. We might be able to make bones out of such material at some point. For bots where you can replace the batteries easily cheap ones which need to be replaced more often might be better. Nickel-Cadmium even, not sure. I don't like Li-Ion bc they can start to burn much easier on their own. Ultracaps or Supercaps, which are not batteries, for extra power from higher voltage or low variable voltage with fast recharging. Could be interesting for motors which run on 24V/48V, 24V/12V or 12V/6V for example. Waifu might only need the motor with 48V sometimes for getting up or lifting, other stuff might need 20V max. Computer which needs 12V might turn off at some point, the other one which needs 6V could still operate for chat an tell master that waifu needs to be plugged in.
>>4385 Oh, I only realised now that the article and list on rechargable batteries on Wikipedia doesn't even mention LTOs. I don't remember where I read about comparisons then, though most likely it has been the German version of Wikipedia. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium-titanate_battery Also, I probably meant NiMH or NiFe in the comment above, not Nickel-Cadmium, for the best use and dump batteries. But I don't remember exactly. The prices change anyways and Li-Ion might have become a bit safer now. Litium-IronPhosphate could also be interesting, less life cycles than LTOs but more energy density. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_iron_phosphate_battery You need to look for recharge cycles, energy density, durability over time maybe, stability, price of course, recharge speed maybe, volume might also matter, etc.
>>4385 >You can spend days or weeks to read and watch stuff about that, especially if you start to be interested in others, like for cars and solar cells... Thanks for saving us all some time then. That's one of /robowaifu/'s purposes: to be a central repository of valuable information so we can all find that information handily. Appreciate the research and report Anon. Please keep it up! :^) >Batteries out of plastics will be interesting, if the can be recharged often. We might be able to make bones out of such material at some point. I think I remember reading about research investigating the concept of thin-film sheet batteries, and ones that are formed into arbitrary shapes also. There's certainly plenty of room for improvement, and thankfully there's also a broad, general economic incentive in many, many industries to improve them. It will be interesting to see what's new in the future for small, lightweight energy storage system in the future.
I mentioned https://batteryuniversity.com/ as a good resource on batteries here: >>4391 which is the thread for more on batteries. Another great site for learning about electronics is this here: https://www.allaboutcircuits.com/textbook/ https://www.allaboutcircuits.com/video-tutorials/ https://www.allaboutcircuits.com/worksheets/ https://www.allaboutcircuits.com/forums If you wanna learn about that, maybe make one of them your startpage or put them on "speed dial"-page, for not getting distracted by less important stuff. But, don't forget about this site here!
>>4415 Thanks Anon, these links are appreciated.
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I'm currently looking into potentiometers. We might need those in many joints of our waifus to measure the movement. I'm quite sure this is better than using lots of encoded servos, especially if we have some alternative muscles as well. Saw this first in one of Will Cogleys video about hands here: https://youtu.be/-zqZ-izx-7w In the comments someone explained that these a common, but go as position sensors! They seem to wear of quite fast, though. So they might not be the best solution. Trying to accumulate some knowledge about potentiometers and such today, things like size and durability. Need to order them in advance from China and didn't know which ones, though they're cheap anyways. Digital multi-turn pot: https://youtu.be/vPzDs2AdFeg Hall effect sensors might be a better alternative: https://youtu.be/wpAA3qeOYiI For bigger joints, crankshaft sensors might work, which seem to be hall effect sensors as well, and they are available for cars and build to be very durable: https://youtu.be/HRbk-YFIMXE
>>4731 Also got this explanation of hall effect and crank shaft sensors: https://youtu.be/isYmSB3RqWM Someone in my conversation suggested rotary encoders, which are normally in the servos, but they might be available separate or could be build. It's was meant as pointing to a general concept, they can use light, magnetism, mechanics or hall effect. Simple version would be an led which is visible sometimes, and then not. Then there would be RVDT, which is used in avionics. Didn't look into that, yet. I thought about gyros and accelerometers, but they are expensive and don't return absolute data, need to know a starting point an to be integrated over time. Here more about human sensing of movement: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proprioception
>>4731 >>4732 Nice research on your part Anon. So yes, we'll need accurate angle encoding for the differing elements of the limbs, for example, to be able to make accurate (and realtime) analysis of the current kinematic dynamics going on atm. For walking, say, or picking up a pot from the stove. The kinematic/physics calculations need those angles (and rate of dynamic changes) to be able to predict the mass-moment changes for the thrown-weight of the entire mechanism as a unit. For example, the torques and dynamics on a shoulder will be different depending on the angle of the lower arm, and whether any additional external mass is being managed at the end of that extremity (picking up a pot of water, say). Nice to see you also consider things like durability and environmental operating conditions of the components. A) All engineering is a series of compromises/tradeoffs, and B) No one 'outsmarts' the laws of physics. You adapt to them, or you fail.
>>4736 Interesting, what I wonder about for a while is how accurate these informations really need to be. Humans seem not to work that way, I don't know if my arm is 2cm higher or lower. My current working assumption is, we don't need to be very precise. We need a fast reaction and adaption to weight for example. Exact actions of the hands need to be controlled by visual input and sensory input from the hands. Trying to use concepts which are meant for industrial robots without sensors will only make it more difficult.
>>4731 Position sensors again: This madman here with his amazing robot looked into the same problem a while ago: https://youtu.be/KN4wAZHtbzc
Memristors (Speech from 2018): https://youtu.be/Y6ab32SRRoE Interesting alternative to current electronics for neuronal networks. More similar to neurons. Might help to build a AI which can detect outliers in data, which current systems seem to be bad at (well this was 2018). Here the newer video of setting up a Memristor discovery platform for learning about this stuff: https://youtu.be/mkIdxMKrJFE which they are selling here https://knowm.com/products/memristor-discovery-board-chip-manual only the last 5 min of the video might be interesting. Java SDK, Mac/Win/Linux, some cables, osziloscope, ... Actually using it is shown here and explained to some extend: https://youtu.be/hb3FF7QIgs8 which seems to be more difficult sometimes than doing it in software... but fascinating. I don't know no where to discuss newer developments of the outlier problems in current AI software, please keep in mind this here is the thread on electronics. Further discussion on that problem might fit better in some other thread and then link from here to there.
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GIGATRON 9'000 (OK, it's not really called that, but it sounds cool). https://gigatron.io/?p=2230
This is apparently one of the Chinese manufacturers of custom, made-to-order PCBs. I don't know much about that stuff yet, but I found this so I thought I'd link them here. If the EE guys want maybe they can tell us what they think of them. https://www.pcbway.com/ I like the idea of building custom, inexpensive electronics & controllers etc. specifically engineered for our robowaifus someday. But my guess is we'll need to stick with commonly manufactured parts during these days of the robowaifu industry. Anyway, just storing this here so I can find it again someday.
>related xpost (>>10663)
Related: Buying or building your own electronic speed controller for a BLDC motor >>10729 - Building it might be a good early project for someone getting into electronics. After doing some smaller test projects of course.
>>1554 So, since the last time I checked out the 6502 project from Ben Eater, he's added a couple more videos (nos. 11 & 12) about the basics of interrupt requests, and devising interrupt request service routines. The latter is accomplished in the second video via the 6522 interface chip. Certainly some professional-tier Digital EE material, and touches on a few topics that we'd run into creating the embedded electronics for robowaifus. You need to understand the assembler involved, as well as digital electronics edge states etc., which are covered in other videos from his channel. youtube-dl -i --write-description --write-auto-sub --sub-lang="en" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DlEa8kd7n3Q https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOYA-jsWTmc >the full playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLowKtXNTBypFbtuVMUVXNR0z1mu7dp7eH
>>5802 Assembly manual > Assembly videos: youtube-dl -i --write-description --write-auto-sub --sub-lang="en" https://gigatron.io/?page_id=544 https://github.com/kervinck/gigatron-rom
>>10740 >>10741 Wow, it might be educational to go so deep into things, understanding the fundamentals, however that's also a kind of rabbit hole. Do what you want, but I suggest starting with sensors and dc motors. That's what I'm doing. OT: The Gigatron would be great if we get an ecosystem out of it, where small groups would be able to make their own ICs and build simple computers which could connect to the net. In case some major gobal catastrophe would happen and we would need to recover. I know that some people are working on their own analog computers, that might be useful for that as well. Essential tools and electronic components to get started: https://youtu.be/u4md32GMX28 https://youtu.be/7-djg27lJyQ https://youtu.be/Nb78wF1Tkwc
>>10743 >In case some major gobal catastrophe would happen and we would need to recover. Yes, that's true. All modern microprocessors would fry permanently in a big EMP or other severe partical storm, but clunky old TTL & 6502s, etc., should keep on ticking after a reset. Heh, apart from the billions that would die first it'd be just like being transported back in time to the '70's or something.
>>10745 This was one example I was thinking about, but I'm inclined to assume they would survive if stored in a metal box or something. Also, not sure how strong the EMP would need to be and how realistic it actually is. Would have to look more into that. Also, if they last longer, compared to microprocessors, in a case if we would loose Taiwan, China and California, or even more to some nuclear war and then had no factories to build new computers left.
>>10746 Considering constructing relay computers might not be a bad idea at some point in the future. >Relay Computer from the Clickety Clack channel: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL_1HsIiuOfg3QA91DUd9kGJjQoOHwlt5Q
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>>10747 >relay computers Cracking good job of Wallace & Gromit make a pocket calculator. https://www.youtube.com/user/paul80nd/playlists
>>10747 IDK, what's the benefit over ICs? That we could build them? I guess, such computers would be even much slower.
>>10757 >what benefit Learning at a very fundamental, 'mechanical' level exactly what makes electronic computers tick. Charles Babbage might have given his back teeth to have what we can obtain freely to hand so that even an amateur can create a real working computer from scratch. >over ICs? A relay computer will actually keep working after a major EMP. >such computers would be even much slower. Much doesn't even begin to cover it Anon. But OTOH, it's infinity faster than no modern computers at all, which is what the survivors remaining will have after modern ones are destroyed in the above scenario. Heh, you could think of it as a 'rebuilding civilization from the neo-Stone Age' type of deal. :^) Ofc, mostly it's just a fun hobby and educational thing. Not every.single.thing. has to have a bottom line attached to it, right Anon?
>>10679 eFuse circuit: Protection for electronics and batteries https://youtu.be/JOhQ3nsR7xo
>>10840 Neat, thanks Anon.
Companion video series (playlist) for the book But How Do It Know? (>>4660) https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=PLYE0XunAbwfDvfabOlNWLViRcMI54M6CR This is a fan-made series of videos, not from the author himself. However, it's directly linked from the book's main page now, so it clearly has his approval. http://buthowdoitknow.com/
>>11211 >>11226 Thanks, I might look into it.
I dunno, Plumes of Dusk are often hard to come by. (because they aren't real)
>>12158 Oh they're real, Anon. Very. VERY. REAL.
>>11211 >Companion video series (playlist) for the book >But How Do It Know? (>>4660) https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=PLYE0XunAbwfDvfabOlNWLViRcMI54M6CR Made this for my own benefit. Figured it might be slightly useful to any anons who yt'dl this playlist too. >playall.m3u But How Do It Know Video #1 - Introduction-HeYAtkbHvuQ.mkv But How Do It Know Video #2 - The NAND Gate-7X8Xe6NdX_U.mkv But How Do It Know Video #3 - The NOT and AND Gates-RsS5E09KOFQ.webm But How Do It Know Video #4 - 1-bit Memory-T_zmJFBdT1Y.mkv But How Do It Know Video #5 - The Enabler-9zE6cxrcAHM.mkv But How Do It Know Video #6 - The Register-BmQ0sgMLU94.webm But How Do It Know Video #7 - The Project-6VVbffrB1hk.webm But How Do It Know Video #8 - The Bus (part 1)-n5KcZeeivpw.mkv But How Do It Know Video #9 - The Bus (part 2)-RYMHEctNua8.mkv But How Do It Know Video #10 - Programming the Arduinos-89H9G1QBP88.webm But How Do It Know Video #11 - The RAM-RMTTzt1TpQM.webm But How Do It Know Video #12 - The OR and XOR Gates-hZ46ScsJR0E.mkv But How Do It Know Video #13 - The ALU (part 1)-u_suc2Suz_A.mkv But How Do it Know Video #14 - The ALU (part 2)-1b9xstTJgdw.mkv But How Do It Know Video #15 - The R0 and R1 Registers-EU_dSRYpKAk.webm But How Do It Know Video #16 - The Clock and Stepper (part 1)-JzrhdoKcWP4.mkv But How Do It Know Video #17 - The Clock and Stepper (part 2)-GNm02NtcrUI.webm But How Do It Know Video #18 - The Clock and Stepper (part 3)-h0BzI1fzYx4.webm But How Do It Know Video #19 - Doing Something Useful-xlsrpmMnYJg.webm But How Do It Know Video #20 - The R2 and R3 Registers-3cpDMArIQBs.mkv But How Do It Know Video #21 - Instruction Processing-0munf5abV6o.webm But How Do It Know Video #22 - ALU, LD, ST and DATA Instructions-yCNYYJ5sxLw.mkv But How Do It Know Video #23 - Microcode-Z-UGXOA-YzE.webm But How Do It Know Video #24 - Shift Registers-76NV0D64ujc.mkv But How Do It Know Video #25 - The Control Section-hr-mDJS__Lg.mkv But How Do It Know Video #26 - Manual Progamming-Jelqtmf92Nc.mkv But How Do It Know Video #27 - The JMPR and JMP Instructions-5nVfUwjL4T0.webm But How Do It Know Video #28 - The FLAGS Register and JCAEZ Circuitry-vwnRNcgfYNc.mkv But How Do It Know Video #29 - The IO Instructions and Devices-ELyPN6f-HLM.mkv But How Do It Know Video #30 - Assembly Language and Automatic Clock-VEP-cN9Z8i0.mkv But How Do It Know Video #31 - Running Sample Programs-ldliqjpa3L0.mkv But How Do It Know Video #32 - Conclusion-PlRL-e-tk9Q.webm
>>14342 Links and info from the video descriptions, roughly in the same order as received: === Companion Video Series Playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLYE0XunAbwfDvfabOlNWLViRcMI54M6CR But How Do It Know?: http://www.buthowdoitknow.com/ SN74HC00 product page: https://www.ti.com/product/SN74HC00 Circuit schematic: https://raw.githubusercontent.com/patrickleboutillier/jcscpu-hmc/main/Videos/4-%201-bit%20Memory/1-bit%20Memory.png Full Register Schematic: https://raw.githubusercontent.com/patrickleboutillier/jcscpu-hmc/main/Videos/6-%20The%20Register/Register_bb.png Full Register Schematic with Testbench: https://raw.githubusercontent.com/patrickleboutillier/jcscpu-hmc/main/Videos/6-%20The%20Register/Register_bb_testbench.png SN74HC373 Product Page: https://www.ti.com/product/SN74HC373 Perl Implementation: https://github.com/patrickleboutillier/jcscpu/tree/master/perl Go Implementation: https://github.com/patrickleboutillier/jcscpu FPGA Implementation: https://github.com/patrickleboutillier/jcscpu-hw Bill Of Materials: https://patrickleboutillier.github.io/jcscpu-hmc/jcscpu-hmc_bom.html Project Schematic: https://raw.githubusercontent.com/patrickleboutillier/jcscpu-hmc/main/jcscpu-hmc_bb.png Bus Schematic: https://raw.githubusercontent.com/patrickleboutillier/jcscpu-hmc/main/Videos/9-%20The%20Bus%20(part%202)/jcscpu-hmc_bb_bus.png Ben Eater 8-bit Computer Video Series: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLowKtXNTBypGqImE405J2565dvjafglHU Ben Eater Tri-State Logic Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=faAjse109Q8&list=PLowKtXNTBypGqImE405J2565dvjafglHU&index=10 Installation Instructions: https://github.com/patrickleboutillier/jcscpu-hmc#installation-instructions RAM Schematic: https://raw.githubusercontent.com/patrickleboutillier/jcscpu-hmc/main/Videos/11-%20The%20RAM/jcscpu-hmc_bb_ram.png RAM Arduino Code: https://github.com/patrickleboutillier/jcscpu-hmc/blob/main/Arduino-Main/RAM.cpp SN74HC04 Product Page: https://www.ti.com/product/SN74HC04 SN74HC08 Product Page: https://www.ti.com/product/SN74HC08 SN74HC32 Product Page: https://www.ti.com/product/SN74HC32 SN74HC86 Product Page: https://www.ti.com/product/SN74HC86 Diode Logic Gates Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lqwSaIDm2g CD74H283 Product Page: https://www.ti.com/product/CD74HC283 SN74H682 Product Page: https://www.ti.com/product/SN74HC682 ALU Schematic: https://raw.githubusercontent.com/patrickleboutillier/jcscpu-hmc/main/Videos/14-%20The%20ALU%20(part%202)/jcscpu-hmc_alu_bb.png ALU Arduino Code: https://github.com/patrickleboutillier/jcscpu-hmc/blob/main/Arduino-Main/ALU.cpp Control Section Labels: https://raw.githubusercontent.com/patrickleboutillier/jcscpu-hmc/main/labels.pdf ALU Test Cases: https://raw.githubusercontent.com/patrickleboutillier/jcscpu-hmc/main/Videos/14-%20The%20ALU%20(part%202)/Table.png R0 & R1 Schematic: https://raw.githubusercontent.com/patrickleboutillier/jcscpu-hmc/main/Videos/15-%20The%20R0%20and%20R1%20Registers/jcscpu-hmc_r0r1_bb.png Clock and Stepper Schematic: https://raw.githubusercontent.com/patrickleboutillier/jcscpu-hmc/main/Videos/18-%20The%20Clock%20and%20Stepper%20(part%203)/jcscpu-hmc_clock_bb.png Control Section Labels: https://raw.githubusercontent.com/patrickleboutillier/jcscpu-hmc/main/labels.pdf R2 & R3 Schematic: https://raw.githubusercontent.com/patrickleboutillier/jcscpu-hmc/main/Videos/20-%20The%20R2%20and%20R3%20Registers/jcscpu-hmc_r2r3_bb.png SN74HC595 Product Page: https://www.ti.com/product/SN74HC595 Last Minute Engineers SN74HC595 Tutorial: https://lastminuteengineers.com/74hc595-shift-register-arduino-tutorial/ Control Section Schematic: https://raw.githubusercontent.com/patrickleboutillier/jcscpu-hmc/main/Videos/25-%20The%20Control%20Section/jcscpu-hmc_cs_bb.png Here's the program we will be using: RAM Addr Code Instruction 00000000 00100000 DATA(R0, 20) 00000001 00010100 - 00000010 00100001 DATA(R1, 22) 00000011 00010110 - 00000100 10000001 ADD(R0, R1) FLAGS and JCAEZ Schematic: https://raw.githubusercontent.com/patrickleboutillier/jcscpu-hmc/main/Videos/28-%20The%20FLAGS%20Register%20and%20JCAEZ%20Circuitry/jcscpu-hmc_flags_bb.png FLAGS and JCAEZ Lines Schematic: https://raw.githubusercontent.com/patrickleboutillier/jcscpu-hmc/main/Videos/28-%20The%20FLAGS%20Register%20and%20JCAEZ%20Circuitry/jcscpu-hmc_flag_lines_bb.png But How Do It Know Errata: http://www.buthowdoitknow.com/errata.html 5x5 program: http://www.buthowdoitknow.com/cpu_model_intro.html EDSAC Squares program: https://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~mr10/Edsac/edsacposter.pdf 10print program: https://10print.org/ Ben Eater's 8-bit Computer Video Series: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLowKtXNTBypGqImE405J2565dvjafglHU Ben Eater Clock Videos: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRlSFm519Bo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81BgFhm2vz8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCwJNnx36Rk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmQ5K7UQPMM Ben Eater EEPROM Videos: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BA12Z7gQ4P0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K88pgWhEb1M RAM chip: https://www.alliancememory.com/wp-content/uploads/pdf/Alliance%20Memory_64K_AS6C6264v2.0July2017.pdf EEPROM chip: https://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/DeviceDoc/doc0270.pdf
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> Researchers at TU Wien have Developed Adaptive Transistor Using Germanium https://www.techpowerup.com/290217/researchers-at-tu-wien-have-developed-adaptive-transistor-using-germanium > 0 > 0.5 > 1 Adaptive transistor which can have some "average" states, a.k.a nonbinary system, or something similar to the ternary system of computation, which is still considered very complex today. > does not require new technology, ready to be implemented in existing architectures > according to the claims in the article, it is ideal for AI systems or acceleration of neural networks
Thanks very much for the news Anon! While an important breakthrough in this domain, it probably doesn't bear an entire thread here on /robowaifu/ . I'll be merging it soon with one of our other, more general threads. Please continue posting this sort of information for us here however. Cheers.
>>14824 OK, I think this is a reasonably good thread (unless you have a better one in mind?) Thanks again, Anon.
>>14824 Interesting. What does this imply? Is there a significant improvement in the performance of the chips using this style of transistor? If so, then we'll have to make our own asic using that same method
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>>734 For any Anons currently working on electronics boards that would benefit from Bus Pirate, there is also a v4 that has more RAM available. > http://dangerousprototypes.com/docs/Bus_Pirate_v4_vs_v3_comparison The firmware code is also available. https://github.com/BusPirate/Bus_Pirate
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I'm looking to get into electronics. Are the ELEGOO UNO starter kits any good? There's one on Amazon for $40. I basically just want to learn how to program a microcontroller, control servos with a controller and understand enough so I can start building a robowaifu. Or should I save my money and just play with the circuit simulator in TinkerCAD?
>>16224 I actually have the kit on the left, and I definitely recommend them for learning Anon, sure.
I don't recall exactly where we were all talking about creating DIY garage-fabs, so I'll put this here for now. >Using mercury lamps as a UV light source ASML is able to get 220nm features out of a dry process. https://www.asml.com/en/products/duv-lithography-systems/twinscan-xt-400l Surely not cheap, but conceivable for a small robowaifu factory.
This here might be interesting for people who want to make sure they can go into prepper mode if they can't get their PCBs online anymore: https://jimlaurwilliams.org/projects/seychellePaper/index.html >Of the several types of etchant chemistries the hobbyist can choose, acid cupric chloride (also called acid copper(II) chloride or just cupric chloride) is one of the more interesting types, since it has the ability to be regenerated, or replenished, without having to throw away the solution.
>>16224 The answer to whether you should buy it is always yes

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