/robowaifu/ - DIY Robot Wives

Advancing robotics to a point where anime catgrill meidos in tiny miniskirts are a reality.

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He was finally living the life he had always wanted, and he owed it all to the mysterious robowaifu.

Waifu Materials Robowaifu Technician 09/12/2019 (Thu) 03:04:33 No.154
I would define a robowaifu as a doll with robotic features. However there are many different types of dolls (BJD, cloth doll, sex doll, etc). A doll has a skin or surface material, sometimes a filler (cotton), and sometimes internal structure (bones and joints).

Continuing the discussion from (((>>2831 >>2836 todo:relink))) , I want to create a thread to explore the many possible surface materials for a waifu (robo or no). The most important decision is whether to use a hard or soft material.

Hard Materials
>3D Printed Hard Plastic (PLA/ABS)
>Injection Molded Hard Plastic

Soft Materials
>Natural Fabrics (Cotton, Silk, Wool)
>Synthetic Fabrics (Vinyl, Polyester, Nylon)
>Fur/Hair (presumably synthetic, inb4 yiff in hell)
>Silicone or TPE Rubber (TPE is basically a cheaper form of silicone)

I'm strongly biased against the hard materials for comfort reasons. Personally, I have a hard time seeing myself falling in love with something hard, but others on this board talk about using hard materials, so I'm trying to keep an open mind.

My preference is for silicone, but there are four big problems with it. Firstly, it's expensive. Secondly, it impedes modification after the silicone has set. Thirdly, it contributes to the uncanny valley/silicone slut issue. Fourthly, it is heavy, and this weight really constrains the skeleton, posablity, and probably robotics. Because of the weight, silicone dolls have heavy-duty skeletons.

My second choice is therefore fabric, presumably stuffed with cotton. Fabric is super comfy, and has no uncanny valley issue. A non-fuggable fabric doll or robot would have no stigma issue, and could be the start of a productive hobbyist scene with plenty of females. Fabric is extremely lightweight which could be a plus or a minus. By itself, its unsubstantial and not ideal for robotics. A fabric robot is possible, but it requires hard, heavy parts underneath to provide structure and as actuators, which would make it less comfy. The fabric could be a textile (cotton), a synthetic leather (resembles skin, makeup/dress-up potential), or synthetic fur for you furfags out there.

Another possibility is a hard vinyl BJD-like doll with a layer of something comfy on top. Alternately, you all can reject my comfort autism if the benefits of having a hard doll/robot are clear enough. I'd like to hear others make the case for a hard doll/robot, since I don't think I could do the argument justice.

Finally, this is a discussion, not a debate. There are multiple paths we could take, and I'm sure different robowaifuists will try different techniques to see what works and what doesn't. I'm more interested in seeing what options are on the table than shutting down any particular approach.
>>20439 It seems to be about like most rubber sexdolls Anon, so you're on track for your goals it seems. Any idea at this point what she'd weigh altogether?
>>20443 I'm thinking of getting 100 kilos just in case. If there's anything extra that stuff is money anyways. Can make phone covers, dildos, fleshlights or regular sex dolls, etc...
>>20456 Oh and I'd want her to be 150 cm tall I think
>>20456 >>20457 >I'm thinking of getting 100 kilos just in case. That's a lot of weight. I'm presuming you're simply going for the classical lifeless sexdoll route? I hope so, b/c devising robust articulation, and suitable actuation for such mass would be a real challenge today given current technology. --- >link-related: -Why is keeping mass (weight) low so important? (>>4313) >=== -minor edit -add 'link-related'
Edited last time by Chobitsu on 02/20/2023 (Mon) 14:14:24.
>>20458 I drew that so you guys would tell me if I'm wrong, how big the space should be the hollow parts or how much to get etc... Also say like the elbow. Would the skeleton be able to move the elbow?
>>20459 >I drew that so you guys would tell me if I'm wrong, Since you asked directly, yes, you're wrong Anon. As I already linked you: -Why is keeping mass (weight) low so important? (>>4313) keeping mass down is absolutely vital at this stage of technology development. In the future when nano-scale biotensegrity-like structures are available to us to use for design efforts, then we can actually be heavier than a normal woman is (much like 2B). Until then, our actuation systems are simply too weak/too inefficient to manage even half the weight of one. Again, this will change, but till it does, you're going to have use a shell-based design, not a solid-core one. Hope that helps Anon, ask us anything.
>>20474 Well we can make the silicone shell as thick or as thin as we want right? Also how are we going to do it with the elbow and knees? Should those be latex? And how much should the shell weight? The jelly for the tits and ass are not negotiable. I don't care about her back. We must force the waifu to carry her tits and ass even if breaks in half.
Anything after and including >>20439 should be moved to >>372 at some point. This thread is about the materials, not about how to build something.
>>20475 >silicone shell as thick or as thin as we want right? I think ideally you would want some filler material. But others seem to make dolls only out of silicone rubber. I thought ideal would be a soft skin with a thin layer of less sticky silicone, then something light but firmer as tissue inside. > Also how are we going to do it with the elbow and knees? Should those be latex? Why would that be? >And how much should the shell weight? Only as much as necessary. >We must force the waifu to carry her tits and ass even if breaks in half. LOL Maybe have an eye on the inventors corner in the Dollforum.com and also /r/DIYSexdolls or https://imgur.com/user/ReanimatorNine
hydrophilic silicone >>20602 >The hydrophilic silicone may have less tendency to keep dirt, hair, ect stuck to it when wet because water runs over it better. Just salty soapy water might clean it well after use with Jlube. I'm really surprised by this. There are plenty of kitchen things made out of regular silicone, not holding onto water. Also, while looking into it briefly I've read that some of the hydrophilic silicone may hold onto some problematic proteins. Aside from having the tendency to be toxic. We really need to look more into this. The anti-fungal ingredients in household silicone are normally the thing people warn about, and why dolls should not be made out of such silicone but out of food grade or medical grade silicone rubber.
>>20604 The "Protein adsorbtion" is when proteins stick to ordinary silicone, and generally goes down the more hydrophilic it becomes. Where did you read making it hydrophilic makes this worse? I plan to make just the lube with paraben alternatives so it's anti-microbial. As long as it's kept dry then nothing should grow on it, and silver (leeches out to kill microbes) isn't something I'd want in my silicone. The only danger is if the PDMS-PEG somehow leeches out after the IPA soak. Might try boiling it in IPA to see if that makes any difference in hydrophilicity.
>>20613 Did more tests on hydrophilic silicone today. A dirty chunk on the floor got clean with just water and rubbing off the dirt with my fingers. Is it possible to make a self cleaning toy by bubbling air and water through a tight hole with a cheap diaphragm pump? The silicone gets too thick to pour well beyond 0.0015 parts PDMS-PEG to 1 part silicone (0.15% or 1 drop per 10 ml silicone). The 50% block copolymer gets silicone hydrophilic in alcohol at such a small percentage that it may be possible to retain the bulk properties by lowering the concentration even more. The additive makes it more viscous and less stretchy when cured, will try lower concentrations (1 drop per 20 ml) later for the final recommended material. Anyone know how to safety certify a new material?
>>20475 >The jelly for the tits and ass are not negotiable. I don't care about her back. We must force the waifu to carry her tits and ass even if breaks in half. Lol. Fair enough, Anon. :^) >>20479 Agreed, but I'm lazy, and the process is tedious. :P Probably will have to devise some sort of bot to assist with this process here, once someone shows me how to use libcurl to retrieve CAPTCHA images, specifically. >>20613 >The only danger is if the PDMS-PEG somehow leeches out after the IPA soak. >>20733 >Anyone know how to safety certify a new material? This will be a must, for us to seriously consider this approach with any rationality Anon. Hopefully something will come through on your question. >=== -minor edit
Edited last time by Chobitsu on 02/26/2023 (Sun) 08:26:42.
>>20747 >how to use libcurl to retrieve CAPTCHA images I found this for CPP: https://github.com/2captcha/2captcha-cpp
>>20770 Thanks Anon! I believe I actually found this in my intial searches of the past. I dismissed it offhand then, b/c it's intented to enable spammers, etc. Our use for it is totally benign and simply intended to help with (our own) board management. I'll have another look at it, since it probably does contain at least some technical clues we need, if not an outright solution. We'll post info about this if we solve it. Cheers NoidoDev.
Ecoflex silicone rubber related: >>20885
>>20733 https://files.catbox.moe/ccci89.mp4 EcoFlex 00-30 with 1.2% parts 50% PEO and J-lube, post 24h alcohol treatment https://files.catbox.moe/z85fb6.mp4 EcoFlex 00-30 with 1 small drop 50% PEO per 20ml EF and J-lube, post 8h alcohol treatment https://files.catbox.moe/c5v8pp.mp4 EcoFlex 00-30 with J-lube https://files.catbox.moe/4khafk.mp4 EcoFlex 00-30 with 1 small drop 50% PEO per 20ml EF and J-lube, post 8h alcohol treatment Thinking of boiling it with soapy water instead of using the recommended alcohol because the entire silicone puck seems to "dry out" after a day in 99% IPA. The silicone gets less rubbery and flexible with a significant amount of the block copolymer. Will try addressing the (research paper) suspected silicone "water poisioning" of the catalyst by the hygroscopic block copolymer by adding molectular sieves to the container. It instantly gets more viscous and cures less stretchy when mixed in.
>>20733 >Anyone know how to safety certify a new material? Certify, like officially to get it to market, or checking if it's safe for yourself? >>20930 I don't understand much of what I'm looking at, but thanks. Is this about the question if it would be cleaned from time to time with alcohol, that it might loose it's properties?
>>20733 >>20930 >hydrophilic silicone is it safe for human skin touch, no one wants penis cancer would it be easier just holes for water jets to clean and after compresed air for drying the same holes could be used to dispence warmed lub in use, before the cleaning cycle to justify the whole sistem
>>20988 I'm quite sure he wants to use water running through, and maybe with alcohol. That's generally the plan.
The problem is mixing in the chemical makes the ecoflex less stretchy. The new silicone uses a block copolymer additive of PDMS-PEG, which is a silicone chain bonded to a polyethylene oxide chain. Somehow the PEO is the exact chemical used in J-Lube and K-Lube, which is commonly used as a personal lubricant. The theory of the block copolymer mechanism is that the PDMS (silicone) anchors into the matrix of silicone during curing in the ecoflex, and the PEO is drawn to the surface where water is, which makes it hydrophilic. In theory, this chemical would be no more dangerous than using K-Lube itself as long as it stays anchored in the silicone, since the same chemical is presented to the outside. As a matter of fact, this explains why it was so thick and viscous when I mixed it in: it spreads out the polymer chains into the uncured silicone and the uncured silicone liquid gets trapped in between the long chains before it can cure. This also explains why it's less stretchy, it's mixed up in a matrix of long polymer chains and it can't stretch out as easily. This chemical may function if sprayed onto the inside of a mold so it touches just the outside of the silicone before curing. Will try spraying it with silicone oil or other dispersant once I have a mold and harbor frieght sprayer/compressor and mask. I'd like to try pouring in whatever usual silicone with whatever colorants as usual and seeing if it's hydrophilic after curing. This may not work if it has to be mixed in the ecoflex for it to be permanently rooted into the bulk of the toy. The hydrophillic silicone is very easy to clean dirt off of just using water. I have a cheap diaphragm pump and cheap water pump to test >>20988, and I will once I have time. I will want to use hot tap water from a hose screwed into my sink faucet with some soap mixed in the line. The diaphragm pump can bubble air through the toy to dry it, but it should need powder to prevent it from sticking to itself. Idk how onaholes are maintained, but it should be similar. >>20966 Reference the paper below, the properties last for 20+ months on the shelf. The hydrophilicity seems to degrade when sitting in pure IPA for an entire day+, but the silicone itself probably isn't meant to be in there since it may have warped a bit too. Then again I put it in alcohol before a full cure, so more tests are needed. I think an IPA washing step to get the loose polymer off is all that should be needed since any that bonds into the matrix will be locked into place. Then again, mixing the polymer chains into the ecoflex matrix probably is needed to anchor the pdms, so spraying it on might not work? I'm gonna have to figure something out, likely spraying a thin layer of mixed up hydrophilic silicone into the mold before pouring in the rest of the unmodified silicone? Could try that one method I can't remember paper of where they boiled the chemical into the surface of cured silicone with ethanol? More testing is needed. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-019-43625-5
>>21008 >This chemical may function if sprayed onto the inside of a mold so it touches just the outside of the silicone before curing. Will try spraying it with silicone oil or other dispersant once I have a mold and harbor frieght sprayer/compressor and mask. Good luck with your test, hope it works Anon. Stay safe.
>>21008 how does it react with cum ?
>>21008 Wow, this is complex. Good that one of us is looking into this. Thanks and godspeed.
Open file (1.16 MB 1497x1055 New Steps.png)
>>20930 I think I figured out one way to augment the silicone effectively. I mixed the surfactant chemical in water and cured silicone under the water. This would cure the silicone with the chemical polymer chains in the activated position between the water and silicone. This avoids having to mix it into the matrix, which makes it stiff because the polymer chains are sideways. In composites, the fibers are oriented horizontally in a resin matrix, which makes them stiff in that direction. If the polymer is mixed into the silicone, it's the same idea, stiffness in the direction of the long fibers. The final surface that had the surfactant-water on it is slippery with water on top of it and the whole thing is as stretchy as normal. >>20988 The worst I see happening is chemical irritation if it can't be washed off, which is what the SDS says to do. Once the silicone is cured, the chemical is anchored into the toy with the activated PEO sticking out, so it's effectively pre-lubed since PEO is a main ingredient in K-Lube, J-Lube, and X-Lube personal lubricants. Should be fine lmao. >>21045 cum would stick to it since it's hydrophilic. but it also takes less water and scrubbing to come off. >>21060 This is the simplest way to make a wettable silicone. There are other ways to but they don't last as long and are dangerous to do.
>>21161 >simplest way to make a wettable silicone I didn't even know that this was so difficult. This might be one thing where many DIY doll projects get stuck then, especially when it comes to the private parts. Thanks for solving it and sharing. That said, you mentioned something about how this isn't available to everyone to buy?
>>21161 >Once the silicone is cured, the chemical is anchored into the toy with the activated PEO sticking out, so it's effectively pre-lubed since PEO is a main ingredient in K-Lube, J-Lube, and X-Lube personal lubricants. In your estimate, how prone is the chemical to be 'pulled out by it's tail' and liberated off the surface of the silicone? By friction or other means. Also, if it does become diluted across the surface in such a fashion, do you envision any means whereby an end-user of the material can safely and effectively 'reapply' the chemical. Thanks for the solid research Anon, good job!
>>21169 The chemical used is PDMS-PEG, a copolymer made by Gelest. I had to have it shipped to an institution (my old University), and a little more research could reveal that other surfactants might have the same composition and are available elsewhere. Honestly it's probably not necessary to mke the silicone this way, but I want to make the best toys available and screw around with stuff. >>21170 Half of the tail is crosslinked into the silicone, so it would be like trying to scrape the surface off of silicone rubber (not really possible). If it gets ripped in half, it would be like having an extra lube particle in the surrounding lube, so nothing would happen. If the entire thing is ripped out, it probably isn't in high enough concentrations to be relevant. Guessing at this stage is pointless, and I should send the material to a lab instead. It apparently has a very long active shelf life, but there's no good way to re-activate it, even with more of the chemical. Once the silicone is cured, it's either in it or it's not. There's a paper on swelling silicone with chemical infused ethanol, but it is not as long lasting from what I remember.
>>21173 Understood. Thanks for the lucid explanation of what is surely a complex organic chemistry effect. Cheers.
I've been doing a little research on how to go about casting silicon. Apparently it's not done by carving styrofoam but by making a clay figure, casting silicon rubber and then casting the food grade silicon inside it. Or something like that... The part that I think it's going to be kind of tricky in particular is drying the clay...unless dry clay is good enough? Also how would I go about making the figure hollow inside?
>>21427 I meant baking the clay. Baking the clay would be tricky...
>>21428 Okay so upon further searching I found out about slush casting. So that's how it'd be made hollow I guess.
>>21430 Okay last thought. I just found something called paper mache clay that can be made with stuff you can find in the store. Not only is it cheaper I think but it doesn't need to be baked. So I think I'll try that.
>>21427 >>21428 >>21430 >>21431 Good research Anon. Please post pictures for us when you begin work on your casts! Cheers. :^)
>>21440 Thank you but Im on monk mode until I return to my house on the 11th of april. I'm also moving to another house so that might delay things a bit too. I've been (trying) to read books on electronics but they are kind of dense... first I tried electronics for inventors and immediately went like nope, then the art of electronics, which was better but I was progressing at a snails pace, I found one called teach yourself electronics which is not too dumbed down... I just download the PDF from Google and put them on my Kindle for free lol.
>>21441 Very glad to hear you're studying Anon! If you find good things to recommend, please post about them in our ROBOWAIFU U thread. BTW, I'm soon planning to put on the Teacher's cap and attempt to turn the tables for the first time. So just like everyone else here on /robowaifu/, we're both stretching our limits and doing new things. May every one of us prosper at it right well! :^)
Okay so once the paper mache clay is done it needs to be covered in a material to make a mold to then do the slush casting of the food grade silicon. I was thinking of using silicon wax but I just found something else. Acetone+styrofoam. If you mix the two you get goo and it hardens into plastic which can be used to make the mold.
>>21447 I would suggest buying very tough "casting silicone" (most hobby shop sites will have for sale, usually 2-5 liters a bucket), stuff dries in less than 25-20 min as well. For mother-molds I suggest polyester filler. Often the sort used for boats, it´s affordable and again like the silicone very quick drying, just remember to have ventilation when drying/mixing it. my experiences seen here: >>19234
>>21430 also depends on the epoxy, most standard epoxy takes far too long to become thick and half-dried for slosh-casting, so you gotta find the right brand. If not you can use my method of just having it 3/4 cured and have it float around at a snail´s pace
>>21452 What would be the drawbacks of using the cheaper acetone+styrofoam though... I just thought of something else. Im not sure if the knees and the elbows should be solid. But then again if it's hollow it might be flexible.
>>21454 never heard of such a combination, reminds me of gasoline and styrofoam. In any case I´d be careful and rely on materials less dangerous than combinations like that
>>21456 Oh no it's not dangerous I think. I found it on YouTube https://youtu.be/3R8n85QgRH4
>>21457 cool, however I would still recommend a heavily ventilated area/room. Who knows what sorta fumes that spawns, safety first anon
>>21447 Make sure that you don't try to use tin-cure silicone on platinum-cure (typically food-grade). It will not cure if you do.
>>21469 Okay so I think I'll just buy the air dry clay from Alibaba instead of making my own. I think I'll need like 40-50 kilos of air dry clay and they go for over a dollar a kilo which is not too much of a problem. But the silicon wax is kind of a problem so I don't see much of an alternative really. I'm kind of worried the melted styrofoam might stick to the clay figure so I'll probably brush it with motor oil just to be sure...
>>21468 >Who knows what sorta fumes that spawns, safety first anon This. Please be careful, 'acetone+styrofoam' sounds quite hazardous in numerous ways! >>21470 Good luck Anon. Again, post pictures!
Leaving this here for now: 20" long, jumbo-diameter, drinking straws. https://www.wowplastics.com/drinking-straws/jumbo-straw-20-red-2-500-case/ > ( cf. >>21223)
>>21427 Sorry for the late answer. I was planning to use a 3D printed mold after smoothing out the inside with resin. The other option would be using Monster Clay or something similar, which might require a "Slow Cooker" to make it soft without starting a fire. Then one can make a model from that, using this 3D printed mold by putting in the clay. Then smooth the clay part out and work on the details, then make a mold of that again, I guess using plaster or something. >>21447 >Acetone+styrofoam This sounds very unpleasant and unhealthy. Make sure this isn't some fake. >>21441 I think "Getting started with Electronics" should be in the thread about that topic.
Plastics in robots: a degradation study of a humanoid skin mask made of soft urethane elastomer https://heritagesciencejournal.springeropen.com/articles/10.1186/s40494-021-00636-8 Aside from problems of longevity, I doubt if phthalates are very good to have at home. I think they were banned in child toys. Soft polyurethane (PUR) or synthetic silicone rubber seems to have many degradation issues. We probably wouldn't use that on the outside anyways, but it's good to know and keep in mind if someone wanted to use it inside somewhere. >Objects made of PUR, together with those made of cellulose nitrate, cellulose acetate and polyvinylchloride (PVC), tend to be more susceptible to degradation than other plastic objects in museum collections [12,13,14]. Several studies were conducted to understand the aging of PUR foams [12,13,14,15,16,17,18] or PUR coatings [19, 20], which alterations depend mainly on the ether or ester composition of the polymer. PUR ether polymers are more sensitive to oxidation, which causes discoloration and loss of mechanical properties, while PUR ester polymers degrade mainly by hydrolysis, caused by exposure to moisture, heat and light, and lead to chain scission of the polymer and its crumbling

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