/robowaifu/ - DIY Robot Wives

Advancing robotics to a point where anime catgrill meidos in tiny miniskirts are a reality.

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Waifu Materials Robowaifu Technician 09/12/2019 (Thu) 03:04:33 No.154
I would define a robowaifu as a doll with robotic features. However there are many different types of dolls (BJD, cloth doll, sex doll, etc). A doll has a skin or surface material, sometimes a filler (cotton), and sometimes internal structure (bones and joints).

Continuing the discussion from (((>>2831 >>2836 todo:relink))) , I want to create a thread to explore the many possible surface materials for a waifu (robo or no). The most important decision is whether to use a hard or soft material.

Hard Materials
>Ceramics
>Wood
>3D Printed Hard Plastic (PLA/ABS)
>Injection Molded Hard Plastic

Soft Materials
>Natural Fabrics (Cotton, Silk, Wool)
>Synthetic Fabrics (Vinyl, Polyester, Nylon)
>Fur/Hair (presumably synthetic, inb4 yiff in hell)
>Silicone or TPE Rubber (TPE is basically a cheaper form of silicone)

I'm strongly biased against the hard materials for comfort reasons. Personally, I have a hard time seeing myself falling in love with something hard, but others on this board talk about using hard materials, so I'm trying to keep an open mind.

My preference is for silicone, but there are four big problems with it. Firstly, it's expensive. Secondly, it impedes modification after the silicone has set. Thirdly, it contributes to the uncanny valley/silicone slut issue. Fourthly, it is heavy, and this weight really constrains the skeleton, posablity, and probably robotics. Because of the weight, silicone dolls have heavy-duty skeletons.

My second choice is therefore fabric, presumably stuffed with cotton. Fabric is super comfy, and has no uncanny valley issue. A non-fuggable fabric doll or robot would have no stigma issue, and could be the start of a productive hobbyist scene with plenty of females. Fabric is extremely lightweight which could be a plus or a minus. By itself, its unsubstantial and not ideal for robotics. A fabric robot is possible, but it requires hard, heavy parts underneath to provide structure and as actuators, which would make it less comfy. The fabric could be a textile (cotton), a synthetic leather (resembles skin, makeup/dress-up potential), or synthetic fur for you furfags out there.

Another possibility is a hard vinyl BJD-like doll with a layer of something comfy on top. Alternately, you all can reject my comfort autism if the benefits of having a hard doll/robot are clear enough. I'd like to hear others make the case for a hard doll/robot, since I don't think I could do the argument justice.

Finally, this is a discussion, not a debate. There are multiple paths we could take, and I'm sure different robowaifuists will try different techniques to see what works and what doesn't. I'm more interested in seeing what options are on the table than shutting down any particular approach.
Bacterial cellulose may be an interesting material to use. It absorbs additives such as silicone very easily and it can easily be made at home. All you need to do is to culture your own kambucha.
>>2959 That's a good point anon. Anything we need to be biodegradable in particular would be a good candidate for this process, I think.
Could we make the skeleton out of mycelium or some mycelium composite? I hear it is pretty strong and very light. We would also be able to grow it into what ever shape we wanted.
>>3058 That's a very interesting idea Anon. Even if it couldn't replace a more readily-available construction stock entirely, it might be a great part of some type of composite. Such as the cores of struts or structural frames, for example. You mind digging around for more information on the current research into this notion and then sharing it here with all of us Anon?
How to make mycelium brick https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6nurN-Hii8 Physical properties https://www.mdpi.com/2071-1050/11/1/281/pdf https://imechanica.org/files/MyceliumComposite_AuthorCopy.pdf Apparently it can be made more flexible and soft too. Here are some instructions on how to make it into a leather like substance. https://biofabforum.org/t/method-of-making-mycelium-leather/218 It could potentially be made into a fabric or foam like substance as well. If we play around with it maybe we could replace the need for silicon. This stuff has antimicrobial properties and it is waterproof.
Edited last time by Chobitsu on 05/13/2020 (Wed) 01:02:15.
The properties of our waifu will depend on the species of fungus used. Here are the ones being used in industry right now. Trametes ochracea Schizophyllum commune Ganoderma lucidum pleurotus ostreatus Irpex lacteus Ganoderma oregonense Piptoporus betulinus
>>3063 >>3064 Just the the kind of info we need, thanks.
>>3066 Oh did I mention how easy it is to repair? Just take a live piece of mycelium and it will grow to the rest of the body. Heat up the area and kill it then you are good to go.
>>3068 That sounds remarkable, Anon. In engineering there are always trade-offs. Can you spell them out for us concerning this material, as you see it for the moment?
>>3071 Maintaining a store of living material that needs to be fed and watered and so on sounds like it'd be pretty significant.
>>3073 Yep, for sure that. I rather meant it the sense of structural/mechanical engineering aspects, actually. For example, I'd imagine that humidity in any form would significantly degrade the material--much moreso than a likened metal part would.
I mean it isn't as strong as metal, but if we aren't using silicone then we don't need it to be. Now humidity can be a problem but that can be solved by rubbing wood tar on the mycelium.
>>3100 >by rubbing wood tar on the mycelium. very interesting idea. Care to elaborate on that process here for all us uninitiates, Anon?
The most costly part of making robowaifus seems to be manufacturing parts. Your options are either really far-removes materials with limited functionality like fabric, or more complex stuff that requires equipment so expensive you have to ask for a quote and say what company you belong to. Maybe machines that assemble themselves(synthetic biology) will be both complex and inexpensive? The knowledge barrier is higher though. Just putting this idea out there.
>>3111 >The most costly part of making robowaifus seems to be manufacturing parts. I get your point, but from my alternate perspective, the most costly part is the part we're all doing now--namely spending the time needed to get over the learning curve of what's already out there and applicable here, inventing what's needed to fill in the gaps. We have to walk the fine line between exceptionally expensive approaches in the luxury car, even supercar price ranges on the one hand, and cheap Chinese toy knockoffs on the other. There simply don't exist any easily-reproducible robowaifus in the ~$2K price range yet. >Your options are either really far-removes materials with limited functionality like fabric, or more complex stuff that requires equipment so expensive you have to ask for a quote and say what company you belong to. We will need to change this ofc. Help us figure it all out? >Maybe machines that assemble themselves(synthetic biology) will be both complex and inexpensive? The knowledge barrier is higher though. I can't speak to that from experience can anyone yet? but I admit I basically rather skeptical this will be achievable in a reasonably-near time-frame. More traditional robotics approaches and systems exist today however. >Just putting this idea out there. It's good stuff Anon, much appreciated.
>>3112 I was thinking about the nervous system and how you could make something that can detect cold, heat, pain and pressure. A 3-d printer capable of printing something on the same scale as the smallest nerves is at least $2000. I found an article on artifical nerves that resemble circuits, but to produce them they needed a spin-coater among other things. A lower budget one is around $400 dollars and who knows if it's good enough for that. The human body doesn't need large pieces of machinery to make its tiny parts and fit them together. What's your time-frame? 20 years sounds pretty good to me.
>>3113 >A 3-d printer capable of printing something on the same scale as the smallest nerves is at least $2000. That type of setup is for Anons who are creating a small factory setup to create the $US 2K kits. I should have delineated the targeting better. Good manufacturing equipment will cost money ofc, such as foundries, CNC milling, pro-grade printing etc., but those are all just line-of-business costs for the entrepreneurs among us. The everyman will simply follow our guides and we'll have tier-level kits he can use to get himself over the hump in creating his own robowaifu in the privacy of his own home.
After the mycelium is done drying you rub a little bit of wood tar (preferably pine or birch tar) and it acts as a protective layer to prevent moister from getting in. It also makes the mycelium even MORE resistant to microbes.
>>3105 >>3117 thanks anon, that sounds like a good idea. any recommendations where to pick up the wood tar?
>>3118 You can make it yourself through the destructive distillation of wood or you can buy it at a farm supply/feed store. Some hardware stores carry it too.
>>3071 Oh another draw back I forgot to mention is that it takes about 1 and 1/2 to 4 weeks to grow depending on the species of mushroom and nutrient used.
>>3121 >>3122 Sounds good, thanks for the info Anon.
Areas where materials choice seems to matter most is in structure and detailing, right? The muscles, computation, power, and cooling should be taken into account, but overall the materials used will determine structure, frame, and detailing as well as texture and feel. For the frame, the material would need to be light and strong, as well as cheap. I'm partial to endoskeletons as I find exoskeletons to be somewhat unnatural and not human enough for my tastes, but to each their own. Metal would be either too heavy or too expensive, wood would be too heavy and not strong enough, and while artificial bone does exist I imagine it is difficult to acquire or at least expensive. Personally, I believe that polyester resin with netted glass fiber would be the better option. It is stronger and lighter than bone, and can be casted. If we are basing the general frame of the robot on the human skeletal system, the entire skeleton would still cost about $80-100 which is somewhat high, but not prohibitively high. Fungus is a cheaper but more labor intensive option and I have doubts as to whether it has the strength required. From some limited research, mycelium seems to have extremely low tensile and compression strengths. This isn't to say that it wouldn't be a good material for non-structural components, just that it would make for a very poor frame. I could be wrong and my sources outdated, and I hope this is the case, but for the time being it seems as if fungus may only be good for more cartilaginous areas. I think it is important to keep in mind that most animals are sacks of organs and muscles and bones, and our robot could be as well. hydraulic or pneumatic muscles put on a skeletal frame would make up the bulk of the overall form and could also account for the softer feel that a human has while maintaining function. I don't think that there are many parts of this synthetic form that really require padding besides the organs (computation, battery, and coolant) and more aesthetic details such as the face and maybe hands. Mycelium may prove useful in this regards due to its price, but given the range of more fleshy silicone it may be unnecessary.
>>4224 If we hold to the idea that the skeletal frame is internal and the general form being determined mainly by the artificial muscles, then the only other thing to consider is the skin. It would be nice to be able to use the skin to vent heat from the internals as part of the coolant system, but it isn't a requirement. Skin is a difficult material to pin down. The most obvious is silicone, but that could be quite expensive. One option is to limit skin to sections that are likely to be seen or felt, and having the rest covered in a wire mesh or cheaper soft plastic. Any ideas?
>>4224 >I'm partial to endoskeletons as I find exoskeletons to be somewhat unnatural and not human enough for my tastes, but to each their own. <not loving toasters smh fam /clang/ would like a word with you. >If we are basing the general frame of the robot on the human skeletal system, the entire skeleton would still cost about $80-100 which is somewhat high, but not prohibitively high. IMO, if we can devise an effective, durable, and strong skeleton for a full-sized (145cm+) robowaifu at that price, we should count our many blessings Anon. It would be a veritable bargain. >and more aesthetic details such as the face and maybe hands. all the sexually-interesting parts need to be soft-ish, and the pelvic structure needs to be able to stand up to a pounding w/o damage.
>>4225 >but it isn't a requirement. IMO it's a fundamental tbh. >Skin is a difficult material to pin down. It sure is, but thankfully there are a wide array of synthetics available to choose from. >One option is to limit skin to sections that are likely to be seen or felt, Actually I think this is a great idea. Maybe a very thin covering over the entire shell, with extra padding where it's needed. And as Anons have pointed out, openly acknowledging the robotic nature of our robowaifus can actually be an endearing trait for her. >tl;dr Don't have to cover all her robot parts up with 'skin'.
>>4240 >Don't have to cover all her robot parts up with 'skin'. Perfect.
>>4257 Yep, that's the idea Anon.
>>4240 >>4257 You know it occurs to me (just to extend this discussion of heat transfer through the skin) that if you design certain areas with a kind of 'soft-but-mostly-rigid' mesh that air can literally pass directly through (kind of like it appears the ex machina robowaifu has) then internal air-cooling can be higher speed out through those meshes, whether it's purely-passive or active cooling. Maybe on the scalp under her wighair, and the upper chest/clavicle/back areas (since heat rises and she'd be upright most of the time)?
>>4261 Also, I guess you'd need the corollary air intakes lower down to get a 'flue effect'. Maybe on the outside thighs, and sides/lower back?
>>4262 Problem with an air intake close to the ground is dust and humidity from the air and the space that an intake and potentially a filter would take. Having the air intake in the lungs would have the same filtration problem, but the it might be easier to fit. Having the coolant system draw heat to either the skin or just cooling passively as it goes through more open mesh areas would be possible on a closed loop, but might not be as effective. Temperature regulation is a tricky one.
>>4263 True. We'd want replaceable foam electrostatic dust filters directly behind the intake meshes if this design was chosen. They'd still need to be open enough to allow some passive flow through. And yeah, having serviceable lungs would be a great choice >"Hold on honey, I need to open your bewbs for a few minutes. Gambatte!" >"*looks away & blushes* A-as long as it's you, Oniichan. G-go ahead..." It would be purely active (and therefore energy-consuming) but we might be able to devise some type of bellows arrangement that would increase basic efficiency. >Temperature regulation is a tricky one. It surely is. BTW, we're quite off-topic ITT, mind continuing this in the dedicated thermal management thread Anon? >>234
>>154 >Synthetic Fabrics As a skin for areas that are less likely to be seen or felt synthetic fabrics could save on cost, as the alternative is silicone which can be quite expensive given the skin is the largest organ. Another use for synthetic fabrics is in tendons and ligaments, since the fibers are strong but can allow for some give where needed without wearing on the frame, joints, or other mechanics. Nylon in particular seems ideal.
>>4330 Both very good points. In some of my earlier designs I was using nylon ribbons as the force transfers mechanism for lighter-weight arms & legs. And this idea may still wind up proving useful. Thanks for the ideas Anon.
The skin for the premium models will also need to hold a lot of sensors. I generally want to try spandex/silicone as outer skin layer. The coloring of lovedolls is often not very good, they reflect to much from the surface. Human skin layers are quite translucent, light goes a bit into it. I hope to do something similar with silicone without or very small amount of color on top of the spandex which might be colored a bit. For sensors we will need these conductive fabrics with silver, which is quite light colored, so I'm not sure if the spandex will even be necessary.
>>4349 >Human skin layers are quite translucent, light goes a bit into it. Quite true. It's been quite a focus of realism efforts in film & vidya. It's referred to as 'Subsurface Scattering' in the industry, and you'd be surprised I'd be the amount of attention it has been given.
PVC tubes for waterlines might be very tempting to use for prototyping of skeletons or pneumatic air cylinders. Please keep the dangers in mind, only use it when necessary, and maybe ad warning stickers to any prototype using it. Here some answer I wrote in regard of a video on building a pneumatic cylinder out of pipes: >>5103 You're welcome. Just looked into it again, to make sure I didn't remember that wrong or it has been debunked. The story I remembered was a house fire where everything was extremely toxic after PVC burning as a part of it. Upside is, it doesn't easily catch fire, the downsides are if it does burn then it's extremely toxic and also even heating it up releases carcinogenous gas. So, yeah, try to avoid it, exept maybe for waterlines under cement. What the guy in the vid does, might also be okay.
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Here's a tutorial for creating something similar to Sugru, some fast curing silicone rubber, called Ogoo: https://www.instructables.com/id/How-To-Make-Your-Own-Sugru-Substitute/ "an inexpensive silicone clay that is easily made. It can be used as an excellent substitute for Sugru. It can be hand molded or cast in forms. Or, it can be used as a casting silicone. It can be colored any color from white to black. It can also be made translucent to allow diffused light to shine through. It can even be painted on in thin layers. It has very good adhesive qualities and will stick to itself, glass, fabric, paper, wood, and some plastics and metals." The article goes into some comparisons beetween different silicone rubbers and the difficulties with them. This Ogoo is clear silicone caulk mixed with corn starch, which helps it to cure faster and also from the inside. This might be in particular interesting for bigger parts. But it's usefull for a lot of things, like paint and sheets. Please keep in mind that this is not food safe like the medical silicone used in professional dolls. Caulk like that often has anti-mold chemicals in it, to keep it from going moldy, which might be toxic. I also don't know how well it holds up over time. So it might be fine for prototyping or for use in parts which don't come into direct contact with human skin. Maybe putting a layer of other silicone rubber on top of it will be necessary or at least adviseable in other use cases. That aside, please follow the tutorial. This material can be hand-molded, colored, but also sanded and carved after curing. There's also a explanation for how to make sheetslayers and tubes out of that material. I found this tutorial by random chance while looking into airmuscles, so it can be used for that. It can also be made translucent and conductive by using graphite powder (Oggo-2: https://www.instructables.com/id/Make-Conductive-Rubber-Transparent-stylus-iPodiP/ ) or still be used as a silicone rubber paint, or to make conductive cloth or artificial skin (flexible circuits or conductive rubber: https://www.instructables.com/id/Conductive-Rubber-Make-Touch-Sensitive-Robot-Skin/ ) and also conductive glue. Advantages of Oogoo over Sugru: 1- Made from inexpensive and easily obtained materials. 2- Easy to work and mold into forms. 3- Will set up quickly at any thickness. 4- Can be mixed in any color. 5- translucent structures possible for lighting aplications. 6- slightly more flexible than Sugru. Advantages of Sugru: 1- Much milder fumes, can be easily used indoors. 2- Cures to a harder rubber. 3- Gives more working time. 4- Already mixed. 5- Somewhat easier to smooth. 6- Carves easier than Oogoo.
>>5154 Neat. I'm actually a much better sculptor than I am a 3D modeler. I'd like to first fashion a full-sized robowaifu default-posed statue, then 3D-scan her in and then use that scan data to begin fashioning foam molds, armature designs, etc., from. Thanks for the tip Anon!
>>4224 I'm very skeptical about the mycelium, it just sounds like another unproven idea that gets hyped because it seems like it would be good for the environment. I've grown oyster mushrooms before (pleurotus ostreatus) and while a sawdust block can maintain its shape when fully colonized it breaks apart very easily. I didn't try cooking it like in the video, but I can't imagine it making much of a difference. >>5154 this one is very interesting, maybe it can be used to make cheap and easy to mend skin by coating some elastic fabric like lycra with it
>>154 Ever look closely at cosplay EVA foamcraft? Easy to work, tough, lite weight, flexible and can be coated and sealed in many types of "skin". Better for the robo than the waifu depending on personal preference. Bet a life sized Jenny could be built like foam armor with lots of space inside for robo-gubbins.
>>6506 That's not a bad idea Anon. I've been toying around with different ideas to skin my tensegrity space frame limbs & skeleton. This may be just the ticket. Have any particular brand/source recommendations? Less expensive is better tbh.
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>>6507 No expert advise but I am soon able to network with a cosplay designer for a brain picking. I'm just an armchair casual for now but I am keeping my eyes and ears open. Take soft sculpture for example. Picrelated is made from nylons, fluff and wire. Mind you it's only painted nylon and quite porous. However I have been experimenting with coating cloth in TPE rubber skin by thinning it out with xylene and painting it on (in a very ventilated area with mask). Heat gun can smooth and blend layers later. Turns out you don't need molds necessarily to work rubber skin. Hot sculpting and wet sculpting takes patience but is doable. This technique works best in modular sections at least until I have a full body paint booth. Tempted to do full skin in separate patches of different skin tones like the super soldier skin from Sea Quest.
>>6512 Thanks for the advice. I certainly would be cheaper for one-off work to just do lay-ups and not go to the expense and trouble of making molds first. Glad to hear it's feasible. Pretty nice work so far, definitely a good-looking form. Keep it up Anon.
>>6513 God I wish that was my work. That's a Lichtenfeis doll. She is a retired Henson puppet maker. Considered the master and inventor of the art form. My experiments so far belong in jars whispering "please...kill...me" for now but proves to me it can work. LOL
>>6514 Oh, haha my mistake. Still, I think /robowaifu/ eventually will be producing things that are better than that. IMO, going for the waifu look both resolves the uncanny valley issue, and produces both more interesting and more aesthetic waifus at the same time. Thanks for all the hard work Anon, we'll all get there!
>>6579 Seconded! The valley is all about casting an illusion based on expectations. Something looks picture perfect and has one flaw it you will be subconsciously repulsed. My opinion isn't to reproduce people but to create a personal accessory companion/assistant. Domestic robotics are coming. I like this community. It is focusing on a specific style ascetic that I appreciate more than a self propelled trashcan (*cough roomba or R2D2 style). An electric Geisha can serve many roles from hat rack or teddy bear to tele-presence interface or friendly home automation front end. Frankly these roles would be weird going through a lifelike reproduction as apposed to a proper robowaifu style. I might be in the minority dreaming of waifu as device and not people. But I think devices are getting complicated enough to require rights soon. Just because the critter is built don't mean you don't need to be kind to it. After all, we're all stardust, man and bot. Devices that inspired empathy could be good for humanity.
>>6507 Oh, I thought this material would already be known here. I have a sheet lying around for later experiments. I don't think you need a special brand, and there are videos on Youtube on how to handle it. I thought I posted one of those here at some time. Whatever, I think you'll need a heatgun, and I only got mine recently. I'd like to try letting silicone getting soaked into it, bc otherwise its's just like some textile. Of course you could go the other way and make it rigid like armor, but this isn't my direction. We should always being aware of other makers and collect all ideas we might be able to use for our waifus. There are also hackers building machines that can knit or weave, which also might become usefull. I also bought a thin film of silicone on AliExpress, 0.2 mm or so, for experimenting. This might work better in some cases than using some liquid silicone as paint, especially if it would also be food safe grade. >>6512 Thanks, but a term or name for the method for searching on Youtube or for papers or articles might be useful. I do have TPU for my printer, TPE is only a very general term if I recall correctly. What kind of TPE were you using? However, I also want to note that there's a reason the more expensive dolls are made out of silicone rubber, since it's very endurable and can be made even medically safe. >>6514 Holy F... that's a doll? I didn't expand the picture bc the text was about the cloths. I thought this was a human model. But yeah, the the typical crap fingers give it away, and after expanding the pic, the face also tells me "not human" and also not so great anymore.
>>6785 The term is "soft sculpture" the name of the artist is " Lisa Lichtenfeis". Forgive me if I didn't communicate clearly. The idea is to blend techniques, soft sculpting over a robotic frame then painting/ hot sculpting the skin on top. Casting a whole body at once is so crude and mass produced. We are artisans. When it comes to the "TPE" that is a good question. In all the doll forums it's always "TPE vs silicone" then they wax poetic about platinum cured etc silicones and TPE is just generalized lump. So sex doll "TPE" that is an oil based synthetic flesh matrix that can be thermal molded or chemically dissolved, painted wet, hot molded warm and cast molten. IE: been butchering 20 lbs of ass in the name of science for a while.
>>6841 Yeah, thanks I will look into her work. Obviously this is much closer to what we need to do than casting a whole doll body. My thinking for a while now is that there will be something like a upper skin layer out of Spandex/Powermesh or other textile, then putting thin silicone onto it, so it soaks in or run down. Haven't tried that though, it's just a idea so far. I also bought some very thin silicone sheet which is pressed in a machine.
>>6883 I have done exactly what you are thinking about. Skinning cloth. It works! But I use the mentioned "sex doll TPE" not silicone. Unlike silicone it can be reworked and salvaged from premade sources making it a much more versatile and cheap option. Using TPE lets you skin chunks of cloth, stitch them together and melt and blend the seams together. You can also paint as much as your work area allows like a full body. You can use it as a glue so you can combine parts into complex shapes (like eye lids or lady bits). I'm working on techniques by first sewing, then painting with xylene thinned rubber. Then once cured, using a heat gun to rework the skin using patterned rollers and sponges for skin textures . This style will work fantastic for modular body styles. Allowing a creator to make smaller individual parts that can be upgraded or swapped later. Using the cosplay foamcraft as a shape holding scaffolding for a soft sculpt-able layer that can then be skinned makes a cheap and easy way to make some (moving part accommodating) curves!
>>6889 What about the toxic fumes? TPE from dolls is toxic when heated...
>>6892 If you heat it too fast the oil will vaporize. Go slow, wear the same mask you would for epoxy. Don't put your face in oil smoke. I have a specific painting room with two fans (soon a proper hood and airbrush set up). It's the xylene fumes that require more care. It can make smoke with heat, it's not good for you but it's not a chemical plume. Just smokes like fake bacon a bit. Still wear a mask with filters. You will need the same kind of set up for silicone too. None of this is play dough.
>>6895 >You will need the same kind of set up for silicone too. None of this is play dough. Thanks for the warning. Anons should take care with safety during manufacture ofc.
>>6943 This would become a real breakthrough for many areas of robowaifu design & manufacture if they can be made inexpensive and reliable. It would be an advance for many other domains too ofc. Very cool Anon, thanks.
>>6943 That's amazing. I wounder how long this stuff lasts when soaked into some textile or similar material. One problem with soft skin and soft muscles is to put sensors into them which last very long. The other electronic cold be in the bones, well protected. The sensors would need to be very resilient, but also the "cables" to transport their data to the next processor in the bones. Cables don't work very well, I bought a whole bag of earphones recently, because they only last a few weeks at maximum.
>>6943 Awesome! If this goes mainstream it could come in very handy for folding and bending circuitry to fit inside small spaces. Like the inside of a robowaifu chassis!
>>6943 >>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gallium >Elemental gallium is a liquid at temperatures greater than 29.76 °C (85.57 °F), and will melt in a person's hands at normal human body temperature of 37.0 °C (98.6 °F). >used in thermometers as a non-toxic and environmentally friendly alternative to mercury >Purities of 99.9999% are routinely achieved and commercially available. >>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indium >toxic when injected into the bloodstream >rare and not relevant: Indium lung >major future increases in the by-product production of indium will be possible without significant increases in production costs or price >The average indium price in 2016 was US$240/kg, down from US$705/kg in 2014 Looks like it's low risk and low cost. Looking forward to try this out one day...
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>>5106 >Plastics and risks. Maybe a nice warning label to print out as a reminder. Dangrs differ a lot, depending what plastic it is. ABS and ASA are also a bit closer to Styrene. PETG is safer than PETE and has a lower melting point, so it is used in 3D -Printing. I would still keep windows open or have a system to move te air out, or filter it. I actually collect HDPE, in case I ever try to recycle my PLA, because my this can be mixed into it.
>>9043 Thanks very much for the information Anon.
I used to work at a injection molding factory and if you are going to injection mold parts then do internal parts. Because injection molding is a expensive avenue, if you wanted to make plastic exteriors like forearma and calfs you can do it but the mold will be massive. We made plastic benches and even baby changing station and the molds are over 10 ton. They cost a family's organs to buy as well. Never mind your machine needs to be up to par to handle the mold. So you can easily spend quarter million to start even running the thing. So if you wanted to do injection molding is recomend internal parts. Our smaller molds were small components that went into other proceses like soil launchers. I recomend molding for sure but do vacuum forming and pour the parts in there. Learn from small dildo makers.
>>9211 I think I understand. Obviously any gigantic factory equipment wouldn't ever be a choice for any of us operating even small-factory operations from our garages, etc. But yes, seems like it would be a good approach for us maybe to 'create molds and do pours'. For the uninitiates among us, think you could explain what might be involved for an individual anon to set up some kind of operation to do just that? What kind of supplies and equipment would be needed for instance?
>>9226 Ill stick with the dildo analysis since it is easier to explain pours in that way. You first make your prototype, it can be anything like wood, metal, plastic. Pretty much anything that isn't the material that will make the mold. Once you have your prototype you then make your mold. Normally your mold will be made from a rubber epoxy. You put your prototype in a comtainer with a little bit sticking out to pill it out when you finish the pour of epoxy. Once the epoxy sets and hardens you pull out the prototype and then you have a mold. With that mold you pour your desired material mixture in, remember to not pour the same material as the mold bevause then you just ruined the mold, and you will now have a mold to make your desired parts.
>>9230 I see. Thanks Anon. So, if you wanted to just make a thin plastic shell of say, a robowaifu face or forearm, there would be at least one other step involved with the process?
>>9232 If you wanted a formed sheet if plastic like a face or forearm I recomend to look into vacuum forming. Taking a sheet of plastic, heating it up and using a vacuum to make the plastic form over a part. This is a good one to invest in to make outer shells. https://www.vaquform.com/
>>9233 >This is a good one to invest in to make outer shells. Very nice, thanks. A grand isn't out of reach for most of us who budget.
Health, safety and other considerations - The fungus Aspergillus fumigatus effectively degrades plasticized PVC. Phanerochaete chrysosporium was grown on PVC in a mineral salt agar. Phanerochaete chrysosporium, Lentinus tigrinus, Aspergillus niger, and Aspergillus sydowii can effectively degrade PVC. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyvinyl_chloride#Health_and_safety - In the EU Risk Assessment the European Commission has confirmed that Di-isononyl phthalate (DINP) and Di-isodecyl phthalate (DIDP) pose no risk to either human health or the environment from any current use. ... In Europe and in some other parts of the world, the use of DINP in toys and childcare items has been restricted as a precautionary measure. In Europe, for example, DINP can no longer be used in toys and childcare items that can be put in the mouth even though the EU scientific risk assessment concluded that its use in toys does not pose a risk to human health or the environment. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyvinyl_chloride#Health_and_safety - Plasticized PVC is a common material for medical gloves. Due to vinyl gloves having less flexibility and elasticity, several guidelines recommend either latex or nitrile gloves for clinical care and procedures that require manual dexterity and/or that involve patient contact for more than a brief period. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyvinyl_chloride#Health_and_safety
>>9564 While we all should exercise all due diligence with our own efforts, globohomo (((cautions & guidelines))) are often questionable at best. I would suggest that the more females are involved in the """investigation""", the more likely it is to be antithetical to rational evaluation, rightly balancing risks and rewards. I'd suggest we keep our eyes and ears open for safety issues, but regard the majority of health guidelines with blatant skepticism and a huge grain of salt. Is there any other need in this regard than mentioning the plainly deceptive example of the current evil machinations surrounding the Covid 'crisis', Anon?
>>9566 We can be sceptical about everything to some extent. It's probably a matter of trust, but we shouldn't ignore such guidelines. I won't. I still doubt that people would throw their scientific training and reputation away just to make things up. If you want to discuss that in some extended way, let's do it in the basement >>39
>>9588 Fair enough. Commonsense is justified. Just don't go acting like women over it, running around like a chicken with it's head cut off being blatantly manipulated over every.little.warning. They plainly will try to destroy us as a community legally, or by any other means they can contrive. Preemptively aborting the entire effort in the first place through hand-wringing fear on our parts would tickle their humors, I expect. Ridiculously, some people actually wear the masks willingly today. /robowaifu/ will never become an enclave of those types of people, friend.
This >>9564 is about using the right materials for the job when building something, and being aware of the constraints. Let's stay on topic please.
>>9592 I personally consider the discussion to be on-topic, board-health wise. Let's review: -we all should exercise all due diligence with our own efforts -rightly balancing risks and rewards -we [should] keep our eyes and ears open for safety issues -Commonsense is justified, but don't be overly fearful like some woman Did I miss anything? Oh yeah, just one: Our enemies will stop at nothing to destroy us. Demonic gaslighting is a favorite technique for them due to it's comedic effect. Again, all on topic for my part.
I don't really know shit about materials to use, but I was thinking of making the arms completely rigid up to mid-bicep and the legs up to the mid thigh. Everything else would have fake skin, possibly also the hands, because I don't want my junk getting pinched in the gap inbetween hard parts. Here's what I was thinking in terms of materials for the visible organic parts, mostly based on what regular prosthesis use: Hair: Polyester, Acrylic (maybe a rigid headpiece instead of hair) Eyes: Acrylic or Silicone Eyelashes: Polyester, Acrylic, Polycarbonate Teeth: Zirconia or Porcelain dentures Nails: Acrylic or Polycarbonate Tits: Saline and thickener (Japanese breast implants look better) Skin: TPE, Silicone or Latex like a Stretch Armstrong, which I believe is 0.2 to 0.5 thou thick. Covering joints should crinkle-up slightly when straightened, like the elbows instead of getting stretched too far when fully flexed. If an elbow joint has a 180° range of motion, the material should be cast with it bent at a 90° or at least a 45° angle. It might be a retarded idea, but I also keep thinking of vulcanized rubber like car tires, with carbon black for durability and painted a flesh tone would make it easy to spot any damage.
>>13157 Pretty good materials-list there Anon, thanks.
>>13157 >Tits: Saline and thickener (Japanese breast implants look better) Never had a love doll (so called sexdoll) but looked into it. The claim is, that silicone tits are much better than hollow ones. In breast enhancement for women they might also use silicone bags. So I don't know why you want to limit it to saline and thickener. Btw, silicone prosthetics are available on AliExpress. Didn't find good porcelain teeth, though. I hoped these were also available for training of dentists, but I only found dentures or veneers and often based on resin. I guess we have one more thing to model and build on our own.
>>13162 Thanks, but it's a really crude list because I don't really know what I'm doing. I'd prefer to limit it to as few different materials as possible if I could. >>13188 Breast implants are basically silicone balloons, which are typically filled with silicone oil/gel, but the ones I was referring to are instead thinner balloons filled with sterile medical saline, which tend to look just like jiggling water balloons when you spot them compared to the often overly-stiff silicone oil/gel ones common in the US. Since they don't need to go inside a body there's no reason a little cornstarch thickener couldn't be added to the saline for more realistic jiggle, which would probably lead to complications if they leaked inside an actual human body. Salt water and cornstarch is probably simpler than dealing with silicone oil.
>>13224 >I'd prefer to limit it to as few different materials as possible if I could. That's actually the mark of a seasoned pro. It's only the rank amateur that wants to pile on everything + the kitchen sink I'd day Anon. I hope you'll spend time and effort to further refine things for it tbh.
>>13245 Not really, I'm just cheap and lazy. I'd make the whole thing out of recycled wood if it didn't look and feel like shit or give my dick splinters.
>>13162 >>13245 I'm retarded. I only just realized that except for the teeth, tits, and skin, I listed acrylic for each of them. And looking at acrylic on wikipedia, it shows that there are artificial teeth made of acrylic too. I really need to learn how to machine this shit.
>>13279 >Not really, I'm just cheap and lazy Heh, like I said 'the mark of a seasoned pro'. :^)
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Electroplating carbon foam for strong yet lite parts. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XRSf3vE_9o
>>13763 Very interesting, thanks. More info i n the video would have been better, though. It's unclear how strong it is, for example.
>>13787 From what I've seen, this technique produces parts that are pretty close to a full metal part. It is worth noting, that the more metal you plate, the closer to a full metal part with full strength.
It would be ideal if we don't pollute our homes with plastics by having a robowaifu. Hair might be one of the main problems. Human hair is an option, but expensive. Now I found out that hair can be made from banana plant fibers: https://youtu.be/C_n3nDgjle8
>>13862 That hair looks like shit, it probably smells bad too, especially once it starts to biodegrade. And how do you even wash it? I agree we should do away with plastics, but right now that's not really a viable option because of how versatile plastics are.
>>13871 The blonde one looked good enough. I assume you can wash it, don't see why not. Biodegradable doesn't mean it smells (bad). The whole thing is just something to keep in mind, it might need further investigation. >Banana hair can very often still have remnants of the banana tree fibre itself, it is difficult to remove all completely by hand as this takes a long time and it would reflect in the final price which we want to avoid. Again, we hope you can embrace these natural reminders using the ‘planet over perfection approach’. ... >The length is approximately 40″ folded over and each bundle weighs 30g or 90g. Banana hair is approximately half the weight of human or plastic hair. >Our hair is biodegradable, hypoallergenic, can be washed, https://rawsocietyhair.com/
>>13885 Sure I'm paid by the company to secure that new market, lol. You're probably our troll here. Dependent on the design, the outer shell of the body will be covered in medical grade silicone ruber.
>>13876 Lowered mass for hair is great, though it remains to be seen how cost effective it is for diy waifus
>>13892 Yeah, price is also an issue. However, if this gets to a point where it isn't for green hippsters but a mass product it might be cheap. It's made from plant waste and processed by very low wagies after all. The other thing is, robowaifus are for poor to wealthy guys. Broad spectrum. If one can afford children and a top notch robowaifu to raise them, additional costs for some hair might not be relevant. Plastics can allegedly have hormonal effects on fetuses, babies and toddlers, and no one realy wants a gender fluid "son".
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>>13904 Endocrine-disrupting microplastics are found everywhere now. Literally in snow in mountaintops and inside amniotic fluid. It's nearly inescapable. Your robowaifu's hair is an incredibly insignificant role. Fixing the problem requires replacing plastic on a giant scale, not just finding small, specialized substitutes that won't matter in a grand scheme.
>>13907 >in snow in mountaintops typical envirotard warmist propaganda its physically impossible to carry solids in evaporated liquids, theres 0 chance snow has any microplastics
>>13908 Not carried in evaporated liquid. Carried on the wind. Air currents. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/science-environment-49343293
>>13907 Not doing something because other things might also cause problems is a flawed argument and approach. I don't know if plant based hair will be relevant and economic. I just wanted that to bring that option to attention, because some of us might care.
>>13912 >Not doing something because other things might also cause problems is a flawed argument and approach. My point was that little things like alternative materials for wigs are like trying to cut salt from your diet to improve your health, while overlooking the fact that you live in Chernobyl. If everything's radioactive, the one or two little changes you make don't matter until you solve the big one. This is just really annoying for me, because I was thinking a lot about how to make a plastic-free alternative for food packaging from food-safe ingredients, and had a plan to do so. The idea is to make something cheaper and lighter than plastic and open-source, to curb plastic use at an industrial scale, not just a few niche applications that relying on hoping some people might adopt. Then I lost my job, so I can't really afford to experiment until I get a new one, because it's a big money-sink. The biggest would be getting a Yeast Estrogen Screening to see if any of the ingredients are estrogenic individually or when combined. It only recently occurred to me that I could post all about it here, but didn't want to make a thread until I actually started testing. (And I need to figure out how to use Open Office spreadsheets to help with the trial-and-error.)
It is possible if the plastics are essentially atomized not literal atoms (because obviously a plastic is composed of chains of atoms, called polymers), but the term "atomized" meaning >convert (a substance) into very fine particles or droplets. "the CO2 depressurized, atomizing the paint into a mist of even-size particles" It is quite possible these are carried everywhere peppering the entire planet. Its not the end of the world, depending on the amount of cumulative consumption necessary to cause significant endocrine disruption. But it's worth noting.
I just found out about a kind of plastic I think I never heard about: Delrin. It seem to be printable but seems to be difficult and not very popular in the low cost printing scene. It can also be machined, though. It seems to be comparable to aluminum, and is used in bushes of linkages of bigger machines. It has a lot of interesting properties: https://youtu.be/vIkIkcqJ-E0 (no sound, which is annoying for a video, but still interesting) Machined bushes for cars: https://youtu.be/CdkVZnmteSE and https://youtu.be/cdb2fU78Bvw Delrin also can be printed, but it seems to be difficult and generally a very bad idea. Machining it, seems to be more common. Here a printable alternative to Delrin, POM, and Acetal: High Temp Nylon (HTN): https://youtu.be/OCLMz05atEA More advanced and often expensive 3D printing materials, which often require special printers: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLWL6qzK573EvWBxek8oH1a79pYUXhqbcg
>>14544 Interesting material but I don't see the point of using it, if you have a light mil you'd rather work with a metal like aluminium it copper to get cool metal parts rather than do plastic which is already very easy to print. Overall it just isn't filling a niche that regular old PLA it ASA can't fill.
Has anyone tried platinum cure silicone and baking soda? it might make a soft, porus matrix you could load with a fluid.
>>15212 >Has anyone tried platinum cure silicone and baking soda? That sounds really interesting Anon. I assume the baking soda has some kind of foaming interaction with the silicone rubber?
>>15219 Yes, it is activated at the boiling point of water. Normal solid silicone castings are firm and rubbery, not at all what someone would want in a synth-butt or even synth-skin. Casting it solid isn't even perfect for sex toys that are best made with a firm shell and much softer core. Variable stiffness silicone would be right to make soft parts, and the stiffness can be tuned via adding more or less baking soda, in theory. Anyone can obtain silicone and baking soda.
>>15225 To add to this, silicone cured with a powder has lowered density, has a matte finish, releases easily, and cures significantly faster. It does lose much of its ability to stretch and some durability is lost.https://www.solidsmack.com/fabrication/oogoo-make-your-very-own-diy-sugru-substitute-with-silicone-and-corn-starch/
>>154 I think that the only real way we can build our robowaifus is with a 3d printer so we should look into the best 3d printable materials for the task. PLA seemed like a sure bet due to how easy it is to print and also how cheap the material is.
>>15278 For one offs yes, 3D printing is the only truly viable method. PLA is a great material but suffers from a low glass transition temperature. What this means is that if left out in a hot car or in the sun, parts of her can become soft and deform. Some PLA+ filaments don't suffer from this and PETG is about the same cost though, they are harder to print. PETG is currently my recommended filament if you're willing to take the time to set it up correctly.
>>15225 >>15227 Thanks for the information Anon!
Dragon skin or ecoflex with ecoflex gel 2 is recommended for encapsulated devices requiring a very soft silicone material by the ecoflex tech support. Going to say that ecoflex 00-20 to 00-50 is the best to use as a soft silicone from research, and dragon skin 10 for a much firmer and stronger silicone. Expect the dragon skin and most silicones to whiten a bit from clear when fully cured. Will come back with an answer as to if these are food safe, and I'm guessing yes with the sex toy makers that use these items.
>>15518 Thanks for the recommondations. Any chance you could make a diy onahole tutorial?
>>15523 >Any chance you could make a diy onahole tutorial? Not just onaholes, but 'skin', bewbs, and various other squishy bits for our robowaifus will need to be addressed properly. Once we have a good facility with this area generally as a group, then Silicone Molding & Casting will deserve it's own thread tbh.
>>15523 >>15529 I'm starting by making a 100% sized object for the capsule mold shape and an 80% sized object to cast a thin capsule part inside the mold. The gel will just pour into the capsule, and then can be sealed with more ecoflex on top or silicone epoxy with a cutout. The guy over the phone got a big kick out of me asking him if I could eat off of the cured silicone. I'll use dragon skin for the mold material.
>>15551 The thread title should read >Over 20 pounds of pussy and ass!
>>15558 Heh. Just rember we're not in the sex doll business Anon. We certainly can accommodate Lady-bit kits' created by '3rd-party' manufacturers, but legal restrictions in many jurisdictions would make our robowaifu kits literally illegal if we tried to directly integrate any sexuality into them. If an Anon chooses to upgrade his robowaifu with new outfits, shoes, or other 'accessories' then he's obviously free to do so. Our base robowaifus systems should be bland af in this department. We're protecting Anon's interests in this affair. I'm not trying to defend the legislators obviously, simply reminding everyone what we'd all decided as the best approach a good while ago.
>>15563 I'm a newfag and all I got from the sticky was that roasties are hoesies the whole kit should cost 300-2000 USD. What's this about being illegal to buy if sex is integrated? I'd like to check a thread to get the whole context. I'd like to elaborate that I plan to do big tiddy research to make a guide for a thread here, and I don't have any plans to be a closed source third party. What I like about a custom tiddy pair is that it could be about as big as you want that could fit inside of a mold, far larger than what flesh most men could ever experience in one lifetime. They could be as firm or soft or small as you can make, exactly to your liking.
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>>15647 >I'm a newfag and all I got from the sticky was that roasties are hoesies the whole kit should cost 300-2000 USD. That would be a goal, yes. Don't be surprised if there are a wide range of model prices once the industry is established in the future however. This stuff is exceptionally difficult, and uses lots of costly components. Keeping the cost low is an important goal for /robowaifu/ however, now and in the future. >What's this about being illegal to buy if sex is integrated? I'd like to check a thread to get the whole context. Heh, there's no 'whole context' wrapped up in a tidy little package anywhere here Anon. We're an IB--notorious for conversations wandering practically aimlessly everywhere. But /robowaifu/ scores far above the average at keeping things on-topic and it's a lot of effort :^). We had most of these discussions in-depth maybe 2-3 years ago, and I certainly don't recall off the top of my head just where such info lies scattered about. But here are some ideas of threads that might help be of help to you in your search though: >News (>>404) >Roasties, 1&2 (>>160, >>1061) >Society (>>106) >Wombs (>>157) >Propaganda (>>2705) >Doll (>>101) I'm sure there are others. BTW, we have a software tool called Waifusearch that you can build to help you find specific terms anywhere on the board (>>8678). Finally, as always, the Catalog itself is your friend Anon. This would certainly be a very good topic for our Library Catalogue thread (>>7143), so please post your results in our /meta thread (>>15434) if you actually invest the time & research into the question. Good luck Anon. >I'd like to elaborate that I plan to do big tiddy research to make a guide for a thread here, and I don't have any plans to be a closed source third party. When you have your guide ready, please post it in our Vagoo thread (>>419) as it's probably our single thread most focused on robowaifus + sex, which you appear to focus on. Glad you don't plan for it to be closed-source, that's much appreciated Anon! Please use the MIT license, thanks. >What I like about a custom tiddy pair is that it could be about as big as you want that could fit inside of a mold, far larger than what flesh most men could ever experience in one lifetime. They could be as firm or soft or small as you can make, exactly to your liking. Sounds good, I'm sure many, many Anons would appreciate your efforts in this area Anon! :^) > BTW, yuge mammaries would in fact be very heavy. I can warn you in advance that an inordinate amount of mass is an enemy of the diligent engineer (>>4313). Welcome Anon, thanks for stopping by! >=== -add 'closed-source' comment -minor grammar edit
Edited last time by Chobitsu on 03/18/2022 (Fri) 06:18:24.
>>15648 >BTW, yuge mammaries would in fact be very heavy. I can warn you in advance that an inordinate amount of mass is an enemy of the diligent engineer If they're hard and made out of plastic they can be hollow to save on mass. You can also fit batteries in the robowaifus chest to give her a longer operating time. I don't think we should be that quick to dismiss breasts in order to save weight.
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>>15675 >Hard plastic tiddies filled with battery There's several reasons why you really shouldn't do that. But, you're thinking about solutions which are an important part of problem solving. I prefer pettanko myself but, my idea for oppai would be silicone balloons that would act as a safety cushion for her. This way they can remain light while providing fun bags to play with. What do you think?
>>15648 Thanks, will check out the vagoo thread. >>15676 >airbags in constant deployment Nice idea. I'm not sure how good a hollow breast would feel, but a good answer to saving weight and preserving the sensation while using existing fabrication techniques would be a foamed gel filling. It would act as many small "airbags" and is made with a "blowing agent" like pressurized gas or baking soda (or mixing in bubbles) while it begins to cure. The main downside of foams is reduced strength and stretch length before tearing, which isn't a concern in capsule filling material in my opinion. Next week I may run a test on this with mixed in air bubbles that aren't vacuumed out, going by change in volume for same weight of gel.
>>15675 >I don't think we should be that quick to dismiss breasts in order to save weight. <dismiss such delights Lolwut? :^) No, not at all Anon. I'm simply pointing out that mass is a serious issue which we all here have to contend with. Given Anon's post, my understanding was that the proposition was for a solid-silicone casting of the desired ginormous teats. This would be quite heavy is all. Everybody loves bewbs! > >>15676 >What do you think? Not him, obvs, but I think this may be a prime opportunity for the Mylar 'balloons' for you and SiliconeAnon to work together towards? >>15679 >Thanks, will check out the vagoo thread. Nprb. I really like the idea of the foamed-silicone 'filling' Anon. Perhaps some sort of gradated layering? Firm in the central volume decreasing to very squishy on the outer shell?
So what are /robowaifu/'s thoughts on Nylon 12 CF for structural and mechanical components as opposed to say PLA or ABS? N12CF is stronger, more durable, less heat sensitive, and less hygroscopic than PLA or ABS, but allegedly is more difficult to print than either.. Has anyone had experience working with this filament?
>>15694 I have never been able to get nylon with enhancements to print on anything that wasn't a high end enclosed 3D printer. Nylon also needs to be kept dry, vacuum sealing is highly recommended as it will suck up moisture. This being said, it is one of the toughest and best plastics you can use if you have the proper equipment to print with it. I actually highly recommend it if you can afford it and will be careful. I also recommend using an abrasion resistant nozzle like a ruby because carbon fibers will shred through bronze and many other nozzle materials. Otherwise, PETG is almost as good and can be printed on cheap printers with filament that is less prone to soak up moisture from my experience. Good luck Anon, if you do use CF Nylon, please report your findings and results.
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>>15696 From some of the tests I have been reading Nylon 12 was superior to previous Nylon filaments in regards to lower moisture absorption with Nylon 12 CF improving upon that by being 20% less hygroscopic than standard Nylon 12. My concerns being the introduction of brittleness that could potentially come with N12CF months or years down the road. The medical industry uses a polymide resin derived from castor oil called Rilsan on CF Nylon implants that I might end up testing as a possible solution to this issue. As for the issue of production I was already aware of the mechanical requirements, and was more interested in the temperament of the filament. How it handles, what the idiosyncrasies are, the types of quality issues you run into. Basically the kind of stuff you figure out as you experience a new material. Technically it looks like the ideal solution with the material's weight, hardness, and strength to weight ratios striking a perfect balance for something like a skeletal frame. I guess I will just have to test it out and see what I can do. It may take a while to complete my testing as I am busy upgrading my whole set up at the moment, but I will report back on my findings whenever that may be.
>>15697 I see you want to use CF Nylon 12. I'm running CoPA Nylon for gears with an enclusure, bag + dessicant, nozzle x, and garolite bed. What I've found with this beginner nylon is that Nylon 6's mechanical properties vary with moisture absorbtion quite significantly, and 12 to a much lesser degree. However, I've ran Polymax PC (probably, got it secondhand) for over a year and it always impressed me just how strong, stiff, and resistant to heat it is. It's about the same tensile strength with 1/3 the impact strength, but I've still not been able to break a small cylinder by smashing it with a hammer. The material properties table you listed is likely for an injection molded part, so keep in mind that you may see lower strength along layer lines, especially if the plastic doesn't have high interlayer strength and has carbon fibers in it. The carbon fibers are stiff only in the direction of each layer line with their high tensile or pulling strength. In the industry, companies that 3d print Nylon 12 powder use a wax coating to preserve mechanical properties against moisture absorbtion. Heat degredation starts around 80C, and the nylon will slowly lose stiffness above 70C afaik. I could try Nylon 12 with CF for parts that I'd reinforce along layer lines with nuts and bolts (motor housing), but I'd rather stick with my PC Max. My one weakness with the PC is the giant 1.5% print shrinkage (3x PLA) which greatly throws off dimensions and makes certain prints impossible to work since I can't easily bend or grind it into shape. PC CF would be just perfect, but I don't know which brand I'd go with that isn't low molecular weight garbage that prints at 240C. >>15682 >weight >balloons Could shove some dish sponges or something in the core for that. The texture might get weird if there's a hollow balloon in the middle. Maybe an anon on the doll forums could say what they do for big booba. >gradated layering When you squish something, it gets firmer the more you squish already. My skill is already at it's limit making one shell and a filling, but it's possible to keep using progressively smaller sized mold objects in the same cast for more layers. I'm going to just keep mixing silicone gel (deadened ecoflex 30) with a drill and straw rig until the volume rises by a measured amount in a few cups, and pour it out into a few molds to test firmness of the filling per air percentage. Hopefully I won't keep using expensive name brand shit once I get the process down.
>>15705 >>15705 >dish sponges Good thinking. I always am on the lookout for design and engineering approaches that simply reuse/repurpose/rearchitect already-existing items. Particularly off-the-shelf, easily obtained ones. >weird texture Yep, you understand my point clearly. >an anon on the doll forums We've had at least one here, maybe that Anon is still around? >it gets firmer the more you squish Yes makes sense, thanks for bring that out. It's something easy to overlook for the uninitiate like myself. >gradated layering >My skill is already at it's limit making one shell and a filling Fair enough. I realize this isn't easy and will take us all time to solve everything. You're already far ahead of most of us here! :^) >with a drill and straw rig until the volume rises Interesting. Is this some kind of air-injection system you're describing or what? >Hopefully I won't keep using expensive name brand shit once I get the process down. Especially once we reach the 'garage factory' stage, we'll all be needing/looking for ways to keep costs down. Basic material supplies are an obvious one, as well as the even-more obvious economizing the usage in our designs. Thin films of silicone as 'skin' for example rather than solid casts. I was actually quite surprised to realize just how expensive silicone products are. Somehow I just presumed they would be cheaper in my ignorance. Also, thanks for the files Anon.
>>15705 The image came from some filament company's tests on their own filament. For the life of me I can't remember which company but that was their results. If I find the page again I will link it. I have stuff coming in next week, but I just realized that I might need to upgrade from thermistors to thermocouplers if I plan on working in the 300C range.
>>15708 >straw and drill rig I'm taking a straw with a bendable neck to stick inside of a drill as a mixer. >>15713 Let's keep the 3d printing questions to the 3d printing resources thread: >>94
>>15716 But it wasn't a question. I was responding with a statement regarding the source of the image relevant to the discussion of materials. I then included a statement about a delay which could impact the testing of said materials.
>>15708 >we'll all be needing/looking for ways to keep costs down. Who is "we"?
>>15716 >I'm taking a straw with a bendable neck to stick inside of a drill as a mixer. Ahh, got it! So, I wonder if something like a kitchen blender would work well?
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>>15742 That would work to mix it, but it would splatter liquid silicone everywhere and may cure inside of the machine. Maybe a paint stirrer and drill would be more appropriate. The initial testing of the silicone is done, and here is what I've found: >Dragonskin 20 Stiff and hard silicone, useful for making molds or firm bits. Dry to the touch. >Ecoflex 30 Floppy like a wet noodle. Very elastic, just a bit tacky to the touch with resistance to squish. Good for making capsule outside layers. >1:1:1 Deadened Ecoflex 30 A soft, squishy gel with slow spring-back. Cures to be absolutely nasty shit that you do not want to get on yourself because it will stick to your hands really well. You need to put this inside of a harder silicone to make the part. >Conclusions The Ecoflex and Dragonskin are both incredibly strong, even on the thin layer of what was on the cup when mixed. Everything cures on everything (tested superglue, ASA, paper, wood) no matter what. Just don't wear latex gloves when you handle the silicones. Letting the silicone cure before doing layers is only important to maintain wall thicknesses of each part. The most promising skin/toy/ect. combination so far seems to be: >get on gloves >put on a mask and use ventilation if you are spraying aerosols >coat every part in silicone release (I use universal mold release) spray >wait 5 minutes >spray again >paint/spread on a thin layer of dragonskin 10 NV (or any non-tacky outer layer material) >let it set for 15 minutes >vacuum the bubbles out of each thing you are pouring into the mold before you pour them in >cast in ecoflex 30 or lower into the mold cavity under a spacer that makes room for the gel >wait out pot life time >remove spacer >mix deadened Ecoflex at a 0.5-0.75 deadener:1 Part A:1 Part B ratio to give the gel some squish resistance and spring-action (1:1:1 was too "dead") >pour in ecoflex to the silicone cavity created by the removed spacer >wait out pot life time >pour layer of ecoflex on top of the gel capsule to make a flat base of the part >spread on a thin layer of Dragonskin 10 NV to make it dry (not-tacky) to the touch You could vacuum out the bubbles after you pour into the mold, and that may or may not degrade the mold release layer. The dragonskin outer capsule layer is only needed according to your preference. The dragon skin might slide off if you try to apply it to an uncoated ecoflex part, and vice versa. The end result is you can take a 3d model of your boobie parts, make a mold to cast the part into, and have it come out feeling the desired texture. There's research on human skin having layers of different hardness and thickness depending on where it’s located on the body, so varying the thickness of these three silicones of different hardness can produce exactly what you imagine the feeling to be. The attached file contains a diagram of the skin layers
>>15774 Excellent research Anon. Thanks for the procedural breakdown as well, very helpful. Cheers.
>>15774 >Correction Do not use DragonSkin 10 NV for multi-material parts, it lists on the website that it is incompatable (cure inhibiting) with other silicones. I've only done testing with the silicones listed in the post above, and wanted to try the NV version.
Glad to have found this board. Currently thinking about 3d printing an inner body with joints and then put a 1-2cm thin/thick silicone/TPE skin around it, cast with 3d printed molds. This should provide for lightweight constuction and good feel. Sorry if this has been mentioned before, I'm a lazy fuck who can't be bothered to read the ful thread.
>>15809 Hello Anon, welcome! Glad you found us. Your design goal is definitely amenable to our general approaches here. I'm sure as you spend time here on the board, you'll discover the costs & benefits of such an approach discussed. I'd suggest you use the catalog view to look around for topics you're interested in and go from there. Cheers! :^)
>>15809 Engineering tip: When working with a silicone skin, it's best to include holes in the inner body to provide the silicone with surface area to properly mate to the part.
>>15774 Update: >Success with smooth-on shit You can add some slacker (deadener) or silicone oil to make the silicone less springy or more soft, respecively. Don't go too crazy with additions or it won't fully cure. You can add cosmetic grade mica powder to the silicone to make neat color effects, just make sure there are no powder lumps. Some thi-vex is useful for painting a shell onto a mold, which you can then fill up with more silicone for boobie effects. If you use platinum cure silicones, then you may be able to mix in ignite colorants and have it thicken a bit for the same effect. Whenever you mix anything in, mix it in very well to part B first, use new forks every new thing you start mixing, and always pour a mixture into a new container. I use a fork and disposable cups. With these guidelines, it is possible to make butts, boobs, faces, and girly parts and horse cocks, you know, the futa kind. Need to try the material on a volunteer to test chemical safety.
>>16857 Thanks, good to know. Do you use a vacuum pot to get the air bubbles out?
>>16859 Yes, and upon further investigation I will not use deadener for anything on the outside because it's always slightly tacky to the touch.
>>16916 One thing to add to this: casting the deadened internal silicone first and the outside skin around it within an external mold with no silicone deadener should leave the surface not tacky while the inside is flesh-like. The way I'd do this is by sucking up the material from the bottom with a tube in the top and bottom of the mold, with the bottom containing silicone in a syringe and the top connected to a vacuum. It would need a buffer chamber for bubbles to expand.
>https://doi.org/10.1016/j.jmrt.2020.11.021 Going to try this recipe for silicone sensors. If it works, then making a sensitive silicone part is as simple as mixing in some graphite and carbon powder to the same silicone used everywhere else, but attaching electrodes to the end of the shape. The possibilities are endless.
>>17202 I linked this in two other threads about skin and general engineering, since it's more about sensors than the materials. I'm sure such powders are available on AliExpress and other places. I want to mention the materials here, if someone wants to keep an eye out for them: >oft and stretchable conductive polymer composites (CPC) ... >Diverse fillers have been employed to accomplish CPC such as carbon nanotubes [7,8], graphene [9,10], graphite (GRP) [11,12], carbon black (CB) [13,14], silver [15,16] and gold [17,18]. Among the various fillers, GRP has shown to be a promising candidate over other fillers due to its good electrical conductivity [19], good thermal conductivity [20], biocompatibility [21,22], low percolation threshold owing their high aspect ratio [23], high compressive strength [24], along with their natural abundance [25,26] and low price [27].
>>17205 Thanks, bro.
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>>17205 I got mine from Amazon for their (sometimes as advertised) fast shipping. If time was not of the essence I'd get it through ebay or aliexpress. The EF20 will not be used (per paper EF30), but I included it in the picture. I'd also like to mention that you may need EF silicone thinner to have everything mix into part A and have all the powder break up nicely. This cost about 150$.

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