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Cyborg general + Biological synthetic brains for robowaifus? Robowaifu Technician 04/06/2020 (Mon) 20:16:19 No.2184
Scientists made a neural network from rat neurons that could fly a fighter jet in a simulator and control a small robot. I think that lab grown biological components would be a great way to go for some robowaifu systems. It could also make it feel more real. https://www.google.com/amp/s/singularityhub.com/2010/10/06/videos-of-robot-controlled-by-rat-brain-amazing-technology-still-moving-forward/amp/ >=== -add/rm notice
Edited last time by Chobitsu on 08/23/2023 (Wed) 04:40:41.
>>2184 It would be amazing and a real breakthrough if it could be managed. We've had similar discussions on this topic in the past and the general consensus is that adding biological components into a robowaifu drastically increases the complexity needed to support it, in addition to the many and varied other needs just to create a basic robowaifu chassis, control software, &tc., &tc. I personally think having it onboard is entirely out for these reasons, but possibly we could manage a bench life-support model some day. Either way it would be awesome to manage, and would dramatically increase both the cost and the complexity. I don't really see it being in the domain of a /robowaifu/-tier (DIY Robotic Wives) approach within decades. Still, thanks for the link and the new thread OP. I'd like to continue discussing it and see you all prove me wrong! :^)
>>2188 Someone on youtube tried to make one himself but failed. If it could be made to work reliably it could be far more energy and space efficient than simulated neurons. A human brain is no bigger than a grapefruit but you would need a computer the size of a small town to simulate it. We should at least try to make small scale ones so we can understand it well enough to scale it up
>>2199 >it could be far more energy and space efficient than simulated neurons Sure the tissue itself is vastly superior as a reactive computing fabric than anything man can devise (at least currently). However the life-support need seems to be a real showstopper afaict Anon.
Even people with more resources struggle to keep these cell cultures alive. I wouldn't want a robowaifu with an expiration date shorter than my own.
What if a way could be devised to quickly program a tissue biopsy? If having a small, additional neural system like rat brain onboard, and if it could be swapped out for new tissue when it expired and be quickly brought up to speed, would that suffice Anons? Just raise a bunch of rats and cut out a new brain every month say, to give the robowaifu very lifelike and coordinated motions sufficient to dance elegantly say, or to talk very believably. Would you be willing to do it?
>>2203 No, I wouldn't. My gut tells me this is would be an inefficient, error-prone approach. Biology inspired solutions are more appealing to me than actual biological parts. https://rebootingcomputing.ieee.org/images/files/pdf/4-rcs2-hylton_-_intro_to_neuromorphic_computing.pdf https://en.wikichip.org/wiki/intel/loihi
>>2203 Actually, as I think it through, you'd want two tissue cartidge carriers, and you'd replace the oldest for the new every half-life of the tissue sample whatever that turns out to be. the first half of the 'life-span' of the sample would be spent getting programmed to match the other sample, so that the neural pathways were similar before the older of the pair expires. lather, rinse, repeat. >>2204 fair enough. this is obviously the wild-frontier of biological research and in fact has bigger implications that for just robowaifus tbh. Thanks again for the research links anon.
>>2205 While this was ten years ago, these cultures could support 100,000 neurons(not all of which were functional). An actual rat has around 100,000,000. So that, shelf-life, and the issue of getting it to work are all obstacles.
>>2206 So, you're aware of Elon Musk's recent startup Neuralink, Anon? we highlighted it here on /robowaifu/ the day of the reveal One big advantage ratbrain has over human brains is you don't have to be careful about it. A sophisticated matrix of at least 100'000 gold microfine probes should be doable in a 1cm cubic volume today. And for a shitload less money than the $1Bn robo-surgeon setup they're using now. And, as Neuralink has already demonstrated, this is a two-way setup. The tissue can be 'written' to as well as read from. Ergo, the tissue can be quickly reprogrammed to no longer be a rat but instead become a match of the other tissue cartridge containing the ever-improving robowaifu personality & behaviors you've invested the training time into.
>>2208 I've heard of it, but I never thought of it being used in this context. Has it ever been used on cell-cultures? The harvesting, growing and maintenance aspect are what make it seem unfeasible to me. That and you would need a lot of them. Neurallink can't make a rat that can read books.
>>2208 probably should have 3 or even 4 cartridges active at any given time to help with failover capacity in case of a mishap of some sort. Also, it would be wise to have some way to dump the neural net out into digital form and backing it up in case of a complete failure due to disease, some systemic fubar, or zogbots kicking your door in to take all your research.
>>2209 well, i would call implanting it inside living human beings a 'cell-culture' so yea i'd say it's a feasible notion. as far as reading books (or any other learned skill, like say, just toddling around at first) it's, well, learned. This is why you keep reprogramming the new tissue to match the old, so the accumulated experience can keep growing even in the face of a short 'life-span' of the tissue itself.
>>2211 My point is there's probably a minimum number of neurons needed for complex tasks. Even living rats with their neural count are incapable of learning how to read. Compared to the cell-cultures mentioned in the OP, rats have far more. Even if it could be done one day, it would be like using floppy-discs that can contract disease.
>>2211 what if you could perfect it on a small scale, and then amp it up to say 1'000 or even 5'000 cartridges of ratbrain? All interconnected and all working in concert at being a good robowaifu? kinda frankensteinish, but the fact it's actually conceivable now as a practical reality is intriguing to say the least. >>2212 Agreed. See above for my take on that issue.
>>2213 Reminds me of pyscho-pass.
>>2214 >pyscho-pass heh, never had heard of it before. i'll look into it Anon. :^)
>>2212 >it would be like using floppy-discs that can contract disease. kek, that phrase keeps giving me a chuckle anon. well-written. :^)
>>2211 So in theory you could make a backup of the cell cultures data?
>>2218 yes, at least with the neuralink system. it's read/write. it relys on EM transduction for both, so the probe must be placed very close to the neuron, since the current is so low. hopefully a cheap system could be made workable that just takes pot-luck and spaces the probes out in a cubic geometry inside the ratbrain instead. the robo-microsurgeon that places the probes in the current neuralink setup is what costs so much, so a purely mechanical approach might conceivably bring the price down into our ranges.
Neurons tend to be hard to keep alive, but bacteria are also capable of doing large calculations. Scientists have made various bio-computers in the lab using E. coli and they can solve some pretty complex problems. If we could find a way to program E. Coli and integrate it with a computer that might be a better solution. E. Coli is very easy to keep alive.
>>2694 Interesting, I was unaware of that fact. Links to some literature Anon? Certainly E. Coli are by far the best bacteria for culturing into some kind of production system.
>>2703 I included the microbial mTs and biofilm articles on there because they are able to respond to their environments and send signals to other bacteria and archea.
>>2703 Thanks!
Machine beings may be emerging, but it takes time. Human beings have not only physical bodies but also energetic bodies, this is something which hasn't been explored much in the west. In my view, brains are much like tranceivers (and more), with the consciousness emerging from elsewhere. It may be a quantum thing. For simple robots its not much of a concern, but using adaptable hardware and even wetware may be the way of the future. Here's some relevant info; 8kun.top/hover/res/110.html#q367 Adaptable hardware would be like for instance a series of FPGA's, the hardware of which could be trained in various ways. In software, there's metaprogramming, in which programs can write programs (sometimes even while running). With metaprogramming a program could even rewrite itself during runtime. Starting simple is not an issue, simple rules can spawn very complicated and sophisticated systems. https://hackaday.com/2020/04/18/the-game-that-launched-1000-hackers/ https://writings.stephenwolfram.com/2020/04/finally-we-may-have-a-path-to-the-fundamental-theory-of-physics-and-its-beautiful/
>>2739 >that Wolfram article Thanks for the link Anon. This is a very intriguing topic for me.
>>2739 Interesting
You would have to be extraordinarily careful. Imagine if you fuck up somehow with electrolyte balance or contamination and your waifu develops with 24/7 pain all the time. Androids are tricky.
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>>2770 Their machines Anon. We can selectively control 'pain' responses. But you are correct that we all need to be extraordinarily careful. First and foremost for the human safety of the master/inventor, secondly for other humans, thirdly for the robowaifu herself (after all, she's a very, very valuable possession--especially to her master), fourthly for the environment around her (don't want shit in your flat getting broken up accidentally, right?). And yes, developing and living with these GYNOIDS will be very tricky, indeed.
>>2772 Complexity increases exponentially the second you decide to include organic parts, and every fuckup will be your fault. Controlling pain or discomfort for organic tissue is challenging, to put it mildly. Also, once sentience is gained, either organic or in silicon, they become a person. I don't think sentience would be a good objective for the use cases desired by this board, and it takes an extraordinarily small number of neurons for self-awareness to being emerging. Frankly, the amount of empathy, care and kindness needed to properly support a sentient being is huge compared to a collection of ML subroutines. Better to develop something entirely in silicon which can convincingly fake it than trying to make the real thing, at least at this juncture. https://www.abcam.com/protocols/mammalian-cell-tissue-culture-techniques-protocol https://www.qiagen.com/us/service-and-support/learning-hub/molecular-biology-methods/animal-cell-culture/ Now keep in mind that more or less the only stable cell lines are cancerous, so you'll basically be relegated to cutting tumors out of your waifu's brain on a regular basis. Even if you ever managed to make an immortal non-cancerous or tumor forming organ then you'd be too busy getting showered with money or murdered for the patents to spend any time with your waifu at all. However, if you have the dedication to spend 20 years of your life on genetics, molecular biology and microbiology, then maybe you'd be able to start making your way to something functional, if not ethical. Stick with chips, Anon.
>>2773 Heh, fair enough. I don't concur with your philosophy, but I respect the fact you're awake and concerned. >then you'd be too busy getting showered with money or murdered for the patents to spend any time with your waifu at all. We simply can't allow that to happen haha! I'm not too sure how we'd go about addressing that issue for Anons, but we'll probably figure that one out as well. :^)
>>2773 The response for pain doesn't have to be organic. We can pick an choose which parts of the brain will be organic or inorganic. >Even if you ever managed to make an immortal non-cancerous or tumor forming organ... Just use bacteria nigga. Make what ever surface they grow on easily replaceable so if something does go wrong you can just replace the part of the "brain" that fucked up.
>>2773 >for the use cases desired by this board, that's a big word friend. it's quite possible that neither you nor i know of all the 'use-cases' "this board" has in mind. care to share some of yours here?
>>2773 >once sentience is gained, either organic or in silicon, they become a person What does that mean outside of a legal context? Something that is sentient wont necessarily act like a human, in fact it probably wont unless you try to make it so, which I think would be undesirable.
>>2774 >I'm not too sure how we'd go about addressing that issue for Anons Don't take credit for your work and make it all public? Stay an anon?
>>2788 certainly a valid option, and one we as a group here are in fact pursuing thus far.
>>2788 This, we need to make it easy for people to build these things
>>2787 I firmly believe that sentience is a convergent trait. Once you have self awareness and you can begin processing your environment, by and large almost all solutions begin to have a logical basis. Most positive emotions and "goodness" are actually a result of genes which select for high time preference, as well as co-operation. Empathy is also partially a spatial skill. It's very interesting, as sentience itself is an emergent property of neural complexity, but convergent in its properties once it is achieved. Look up dolphin and octopus studies. Some light reading: https://www.nationalgeographic.com/news/2015/06/150610-octopus-mollusk-marine-biology-aquarium-animal-behavior-ngbooktalk/ Fun fact: niggers fail the mirror test at up to six years of age http://www.animalcognition.org/2015/04/15/list-of-animals-that-have-passed-the-mirror-test/ I think the biggest shame is that the average person hasn't had many if any opportunities to interact with the other self-aware or sentient species on our planet.
>>2848 Maybe we should look into the neurobiology of corvids. They can recognize themselves in a mirror, recognize their dead, and use tools. They have something approaching sentience, but they don't have a prefrontal cortex. It would be interesting to learn how they pull that off and it may give us an idea on how to pull it off.
>>2851 >corvids They are truly remarkable creatures, actually. Interesting suggestion Anon.
>>2848 >by and large almost all solutions begin to have a logical basis Well, doesn't that depend on the purpose of their intelligence? We're made to be highly social creatures, part of society, but a robot wouldn't need to be. Intimacy with her husband is preferrable, but detachment from everybody else is also preferrable. Because this is outside of an evolutionary setting, things can be purposefully made to be contrary to natural selection. Octopi are pretty solitary creatures who don't get to have long term, real relationships, so even with their seeming similarities, they're different.
>>2841 >This, we need to make it easy for people to build these things That's certainly the ideal Anon, and a significant priority here on /robowaifu/. Unfortunately, it's not quite so simple to make it, well, simple to do this stuff. But we'll take an honest whack at it. Putting this tech directly into the hands of the 'Average Joe' whatever that means, heh is certainly something that I, for one, mean for us to do here.
>>2892 >>2893 Thanks kindly, Anon.
Some more links on biocomputers https://phys.org/news/2020-04-unveil-electronics-mimic-human-brain.html https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/04/200402144433.htm https://arstechnica.com/science/2020/02/bacterial-proteins-plus-ambient-humidity-renewable-power/ https://followtechnology.pw/electronic-chip-imitates-a-human-brain-to-make-memories/ (its not actually biological, but it is relevant to the topic) https://phys.org/news/2017-02-switched-on-dna-nano-electronic-applications.html https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2016/03/researchers-take-small-step-toward-silicon-based-life?utm_campaign=email-news-weekly&et_rid=16756882&et_cid=349887 https://source.colostate.edu/programmable-plants-synthetic-biologists-pave-way-for-making-genetic-circuits/ https://www.sciencealert.com/scientists-have-developed-a-power-cell-that-harnesses-electricity-from-algae (more energy related but getting microbes to generate a current might be useful to us) https://www.asianscientist.com/2015/09/in-the-lab/kaist-synthetic-biology-emergent-oscillations/ https://www.nature.com/articles/nrg4014 https://www.popsci.com/bacteria-man-made-dna-produce-protein-first-time/ https://phys.org/news/2018-05-microbes-savvy-contributing-common-good.html https://www.umass.edu/newsoffice/article/many-more-bacteria-have-electrically https://elifesciences.org/articles/25739?utm_source=content_alert&utm_medium=email&utm_content=fulltext&utm_campaign=elife-alerts https://physicsworld.com/a/simple-interactions-cause-micro-organisms-to-follow-the-crowd/ https://www.livescience.com/57360-brainless-slime-mold-learns-and-teaches.html https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/slime-molds-are-smarter-than-you-think/?WT.mc_id=SA_DD_20160419 https://www.nature.com/news/long-sought-biological-compass-discovered-1.18803?WT.ec_id=NATURE-20151119&spMailingID=50048505&spUserID=Njk3NjE5NzEwMzgS1&spJobID=802503317&spReportId=ODAyNTAzMzE3S0 https://www.pnas.org/content/112/52/15771.full
>>3055 Wow, that's quite a list Anon, thanks! :^)
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-019-51330-6 Why even involve organics? I am a bit of a layman when it comes to this end of things, but would it not be possible to generate a similiar dynamic system using inorganic chemistry
>>7418 That's an interesting point Anon. I'm no expert either, so I certainly can't claim that's an improbable outcome. I think for the anons suggesting this idea, the point is that the amazing behaviors designed into biological systems might be of benefit to us if we can manage to successfully integrate them into robowaifu designs. I think that's the main point here.
>>7418 >>7423 Haven't read the article yet, but the advantages of biological parts are energy efficiency and self repair. Even if we could do what the brain does, then won't be with the same efficiency and longevity. However, if I had to guess, we're rather going to use some biological muscles and/or skin at some point. Since this would be OT and speculative fiction anyways, I'll leave it to that.
>>7426 >Since this would be OT and speculative fiction anyways, I'll leave it to that. Ehh, I'd say proceed if you're intent is legitimate discussion on it. AFAICT, we don't really have any other thread that even broached the Cyborg idea outside of the artificial wombs one.
>>7427 I currently think most likely thing to happen, related to parts of higher organisms, is that we might be using muscles based on cell from frogs, fish or jellyfish. One problem here are infections. Working with material from humans might even be illegal in some countries and deployment in a cyborg is another story. Novel diseases can come from that, existing ones might spread. Containing it with antibiotics might cause resiliences. Then, muscles might be easier to control than wiring a cell to a computer and communicate with it, a bunch of neural cells might even be another story. This is all a bit pie in the sky, since we would need people to know about that stuff, have a hobby lab at least and then work on it. It's still more way to go, than using non-biological parts. However, related the biology there's also a idea of using water kefir in the saliva to prevent other stuff from growing, and the idea of using a method to let our robowaifus release female pheromones into the air. mlpol has a thread on biohacking in /cyb/: https://mlpol.net/cyb/1181 - Since we probably can't cover all of that what might be necessary to do R&D in that area, we might as well link to forums and threads for the fundamentals.
>>7456 >infections, diseases Yep, always an issue. An even bigger one to my mind is the simple maintenance problem of keeping organic tissue alive, whether as organs or otherwise. The kefir and pheremones idea is probably doable though. I'm also interested in some sort of coating that would sustain beneficial microbes on the robowaifu skin. There are going to be microbes there whether we want them or not, but we might somehow at least foster neutral or even helpful ones. Just find some kind of lotion that's helpful, just like in Chobits can probably solve this if we do a little research. And over-the-counter fragrances can be easily be stored and dispensed if desired. >Since we probably can't cover all of that what might be necessary to do R&D in that area, we might as well link to forums and threads for the fundamentals. Sure, linking to any other forums has been a long-standing tradition here. Heh, I'd be surprised if the ponies can manage much more unless they happen to have some sekrit embedded 1337 mad scientist type. Who knows? :^)
>>7491 >maintenance problem of keeping organic tissue alive Okay, but in the best case scenario this would even be the reason for using organic material in the first place. Imagine we could build simple elements that would last very long if they get their liquid in which they are replaced when necessary. I thought about something like silicon rubber tubes with muscles inside, which would get new nutriens through a liquid. Waste is flushed away with the liquid. Maybe this would last longer than air muscles or other material. Ideally these muscles would grow out of some liquid with the cells in it, then stop growing when not getting the right hormones or something. Then they could even get replaced after a while, hopefully by dissolving in their tubes, and then regrown by putting liquid with fresh cells into the body. This is of course only a scenario how it would make sense, I have no idea if this is possible or how to get there soon. Of course, it also wouldn't solve the problem that these silicone parts would have to last for a long time either. Only replacing some other parts which might fail after some time.
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>>7493 Obviously, trying to create, long, stringy muscles grown in situ is opening up a whole other can of worms. I'm generally opposed to liquids maintenance inside our robowaifus to the feasible degree possible. There are simply a rapefugee-boatload of problems that come along with the basic concept itself and we'd be best served not to open that door in the first place IMO. And the idea of intentionally adding biologicals into the system? Well, that seems a little more like the lid to Pandora's Box tbh. I know that the topic ITT, but the idea is an extreme stretch for something that's already out there so far it seems like getting to Mars and back.
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>>7494 My take is rather that I want to use liquids anyways, for cooling and heat distribution. I also know that there are artificial grown bio robots, made in part out of jellyfish and such. However, I don't plan to go into that and don't think this is something where we can get fast progress. One more thought on this, I had on my mind, was comparing it to the cables of earphones. The cables often break on the inside, while the insulator isn't broken. If the inside was made out of something that would repair itself, it wouldn't matter. That's how nerves or muscle fibers could work. That's the best way to describe what I meant. In the most extreme case it would be different from most or any Cyborgs we know from fiction. Maybe like a silicone doll on the outside, with artificial bones, the rest made out of silicone rubber and grown stuff, which would be originated from animals not closely related to us. Reminds me a bit of Lovecraft's creatures, but hopefully better looking and smelling, and without all the demonic stuff.
>>7498 Haha, fair enough. There's surely some merit and even possible benefits from exploring the concepts around integrating partial biologicals into our robowaifus. But, obviously, it will come at a heavy cost development-wise. Better appear to be well worth it before any serious effort is started.
>>7499 The development costs would be high if we would now try to get into it, on top of all the other things. On the other hand, in case someone would show up here, who would already happen to be involved in biology, then it will be good that we already have some ideas laid out.
>>7500 That's true. But honestly, I can't think of anything we're dabbling into that I personally feel less qualified to discuss in earnest, and even barely to speculate on. My investigations into the biochemical foundations of life via molecular-biology studies and research frankly leave me flabbergasted. -In software engineering, I feel vaguely like some kind of an engineer, at least part of the time. -In character animation, I feel remotely qualified to judge acting-quality, having been a human being all my life. -In electrical engineering, I've actually put together a thing or two under the close guidance of a good mentor. -In mechanical engineering, I feel like only a bumbling dabbler, strictly an amateur. Mostly breaking things but sometimes succeeding. But when it comes to life sciences (in particular at the molecular level) I don't think I understand much at all. Nor do most others I suspect -- certainly not the pop-science crowd. Never have so many LARPed so hard with so much ultimate comedy in the end.
>It’s not yet clear what sorts of jobs these xenobots might do, if any. Cleaning up waterways, arteries or other small spaces comes to mind, the researchers say. https://www.sciencenews.org/article/frog-skin-cells-self-made-living-machines-xenobots/amp
>>9414 I saw news on that too. I haven't been able to think of anything with that that would help us out with robowaifus yet. As with the other biologics-issues ITT, to my mind the costs outweigh all the benefits ATM. AFAICT. But thanks for bringing them up Anon.
>>7498 Just some note I want to throw in here on the topic of long term feasibility of cyborgs. Slime molds could be interesting as an organism to build partially biological intelligence and sensors: https://scitechdaily.com/slimy-action-at-a-distance-thinking-without-a-brain/ https://youtu.be/spZwZLkMsYw https://youtu.be/2UxGrde1NDA I have no specific idea how to use them. It's just that I think if anything is possible in that area, then it's without human cells,. There reasons I pointed out above. These slime moods have some features which might make them interesting as internal self-repairing sensors for pressure and maybe with some good ideas and gene engineering for building something like a (partially) biological brain. Anime predicted this: https://tensura.fandom.com/wiki/Demon_Slime https://www.sciencefriday.com/articles/dussutour-slime-mind/ https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physarum_polycephalum >it has been reported that plasmodia can be made to form logic gates, https://ui.adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2010arXiv1005.2301A >...practice these results do not scale to allow for actual computation. >because plasmodia appear to react in a consistent way to stimuli, they are the "ideal substrate for future and emerging bio-computing devices https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biological_computing >researchers have successfully used the organism's reaction to its environment in a USB sensor and to control a robot https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn11875-biosensor-puts-slime-mould-at-its-heart.html https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn8718-robot-moved-by-a-slime-moulds-fears.html >Food source chemosensation (taste) The surfaces of P. polycephalum cells have glycoconjugate receptors for wheat germ agglutinins, Ricinus communis agglutinins, concanavalin A, and soybean agglutinins. >https://doi.org/10.1247%2Fcsf.7.145 Mechanical force sensors (maybe temperature also): >The scientists suspected it had to do with Physarum’s ability to rhythmically contract and tug on its substrate, because the pulsing and sensing of the resultant changes in substrate deformation allows the organism to gain information about its surroundings https://scitechdaily.com/slimy-action-at-a-distance-thinking-without-a-brain/ > “Mechanosensation Mediates Long-Range Spatial Decision-Making in an Aneural Organism” by Nirosha J. Murugan, Daniel H. Kaltman, Paul H. Jin, Melanie Chien, Ramses Martinez, Cuong Q. Nguyen, Anna Kane, Richard Novak, Donald E. Ingber and Michael Levin, 15 July 2021, Advanced Materials. DOI: 10.1002/adma.202008161 >Missing evidence for memory in the monocellular slime mold: https://www.pnas.org/content/118/36/e2105928118 Somewhat related, but already mentioned somewhere here in the forum: https://scitechdaily.com/xenobots-2-0-scientists-create-the-next-generation-of-living-robots
>>13117 >cells,. There reasons *cells. The reasons >These slime moods *These slime molds >The surfaces of P. polycephalum *>
>>13117 It's certainly an interesting concept to intentionally harbor bio-materials within our robowaifus Anon. I'm unsure the feasibility of it being productive, but certainly the nanomachines designed by God are far surpassing anything feasible by mankind, so who knows?
>>13119 ideally, we'd reverse engineer these except to be sturdier. Also could help to integrate them into ourselves as anti-aging or protection against dementia if we are able to create nano-scale brain cell analogues.
>>13130 Let's stay on topic please. The slime molds or some other cells would't be working inside a human body. The whole idea here is to say, if we ever get something partially biological it would rater be a Xeno-Cyborg than made out of human cells. Exactly because we won't have the risk of diseases jump over to humans, for example. Therefore and because regulations for moral reasons, it would also be easier to work with such materials outside of big corps and governments.
>>13148 I meant: rather than have biomaterials inside our waifus we reverse engineer them, learn how they work and mimic it with nanotech. This is beyond anything we can do in a standard workshop, but if artificial neurons are conceivable in our lifetime however, it's a game changer.
>>13130 Very cool design on the 'man-made neuronal system' graphic Anon. "There's plenty of room at the bottom", as an eminently brilliant man once said, so who knows? Who's to say we can't eventually devise analogs to many of God's biological designs that are 'good enough' to get most of the jobs done? Regardless, it's going to be interesting to watch developments along these lines, and I certainly hope we here can capitalize on them into our robowaifu's designs. Please pardon me if my previous post somehow impugned the basic idea, that wasn't my intent. >>13151 All true. I hope the situation with 'standard workshops' changes and this can be easily achievable by nominally-competent men someday. Of course, it will open up huge new, unrelated-to-robowaifus-or-AI, 'cans of worms' if it does! :^)
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Has anyone considered that the answer to all robowife questions is slimegirls? - Liquid form is both self-cleaning and fuckable - AI can operate in a distributed manner throughout the substance the slimewife is made of - can shapeshift from thicc to petite and back again, even during a single round of sex -always wet! take the slimewifepill! -
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"My wife is technically a swarm of sentient microcomputers that cluster together based on natural patterns derived from the observation of bacteria dynamics but goddamn the pussy is INSANE and she's a excellent cook."
>>13307 na, if you want something that changes its appearance why just don't use VR?
>>13307 We have an unofficial thread for cyborgs, including xeno-cyborgs: >>2184, which already mentioned slime molds as a possible material, but only internally. Also a thread for monster girls >>10259. Please choose how you want to realize something like that and then put such things into the right thread(s).
>>13308 so we're going to go down the phyrexian route?
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>>13308 >"swarm of sentient microcomputers" This could not possibly backfire.
Heh, very creative OP. I think our regular SophieDev beat you to it. I'm planning to merge your thread with our Bio Brain thread very soon. (>>2184)
>>13117 Just wanted to mention these bacteria which seem to create nano wires: https://youtu.be/Hy7o78CrB-U I don't like speculative or early technologies to pester every thread here, so I didn't put it into the one for energy systems. In the video it's rather about energy generation, but it only outputs a small amount. Since it's biology base and this thread here is for collecting such long shot ideas I decided to mention it here. The point is, bacteria creates wires, which one might use for sensors or such. Breakdown of wires and elastic sensors could be one of the bigger issues we'll face, so maybe one day this might be part of the solution.
Pink Oyster Mushrooms might be a good option for the brain. They are very easy to grow and keep alive. They probably won't be very fast, but they are better at parallel processing than traditional computers so a hybrid approach between mushrooms and silicon would be best. https://phys.org/news/2021-06-fungal-electrical.html
>>13370 There's actually a little bit of research on geobacter sulfurreducens for this purpose. https://academic.oup.com/jimb/article/43/11/1561/5996553 https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fmicb.2019.02078/full
Since this here is the unofficial cyborg thread, I want to mention that we probable could use human skin: >>16660 - I'm not saying we should, but it's interesting to know. Not sure if we could replicate it, but we might be able to with some biohacker skills. There are forum for such things. However, when the go the next step with blood vessels it might get messier and messier. Let's just keep it in mind as some fringe or long term option. >>13330 One of our unofficial mottos is: "We're optimists, so it's going to be fine." >>16662 This is probably going to be out competed by regular hardware. We would need to create some super fungi to make it useful in the first place, I guess. I think, if biology will have any use in robowaifus, it will be for repairing parts which are bend very often. So if anything, then it might become useful for sensors and micro cables in the softer parts. >>16665 >> bacteria which seem to create nano wires > geobacter sulfurreducens Thanks, it's been a while that I watched the video. I don't remember the strain of bacteria they used in >>13370.
>>16671 Mushrooms would be ideal for biosensors. Some are already used for that purpose. Maybe use them for the skin's "nervous system."
>>16671 >Since this here is the unofficial cyborg thread -update: Edited subject slightly Anon.
How about living human skin? https://m.slashdot.org/story/400898 >To make more realistic-looking skin, Takeuchi and his colleagues bathed a plastic robot finger in a soup of collagen and human skin cells called fibroblasts for three days. The collagen and fibroblasts adhered to the finger and formed a layer similar to the dermis, which is the second-from-top layer of human skin. Next, they gently poured other human skin cells called keratinocytes onto the finger to recreate the upper layer of human skin, called the epidermis. The resulting 1.5-millimeter-thick skin was able to stretch and contract as the finger bent backwards and forwards. As it did this, it wrinkled like normal skin, says Takeuchi. "It is much more realistic than silicone." >The robot skin could also be healed when it was cut by grafting a collagen sheet onto the wound. However, the skin began to dry out after a while since it didn't have blood vessels to replenish it with moisture. In the future, it may be possible to incorporate artificial blood vessels into the skin to keep it hydrated, as well as sweat glands and hair follicles to make it more realistic, says Takeuchi. It should also be possible to make different skin colors by adding melanocytes, he says. The researchers now plan to try coating a whole robot in the living skin.
>>16727 I saw that somewhere and thought it was already posted here. It's important not to get too much caught up in what might be possible at some point. This skin would probably be similar to skin of dead people. It won't grow from deeper layers of the body, but still shed away over time. Even when we discussed the feasibility of using biology, as a thought experiment, we still realized that human skin would be messy to deal with. It's good that you mentioned it and we should keep an eye on in, but I don't think it's going to be useful, at least not anytime soon. This here is the unofficial "Cyborg"-thread, btw. >>2148 - Not limited to brains for quite a while, so the thread name is misleading.
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>Scientists made a neural network from rat neurons that could fly a fighter jet in a simulator and control a small robot. I think that lab grown biological components would be a great way to go for some robowaifu systems. It could also make it feel more real. Literally the plot to I Have no Mouth and I Must Scream
>>16743 Ideally we wouldn't want the poor thing to suffer. We don't even have to use neurons for the biocomputers, anon. Infact it would probably be easier and maybe even more powerful if we used fungi or bacteria.
Since this seems to be the thread for all things biology related, how about using microbial fuel cells or bio batteries to power the robot/xenocyborg? https://www.chemistryworld.com/news/sweet-success-for-bio-battery/7022.article https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microbial_fuel_cell
Anyone with a physic background know if peptide semiconductors could be a viable alternative to silicon chips? https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.aam9756
>>16755 Regular robowaifus could use some biological technologies which work. It's not about a strict border between cyborg and non cyborg. I'm most likely going to use water kefir (a fungi) for her saliva. That aside, the thread here is more about speculation on technology that could become interesting long term. Obviously, any new tech would need to be superior in some way to existing tech, or it isn't hugely interesting right now. Except for filing it into "Look into it in 10 years again"-folder. The thread here is mostly about that. >>16756 Trying to do everything differently and with technologies in development will only cause distraction and mental blockades. We have what we need to build something good already, it's just about putting the work in.
>>16758 Do we have what we need to give the robowaifu a theory of mind or emotions of her own? That is the important question.
>>16765 We don't at the moment have a good enough understanding of either from a philosophical perspective. If we could provide her with one, we could not verify it scientifically. This being said, a biological brain would provide such by default.
>>16765 These are rather problems to think about from a software perspective, not some exotic hard or wetware. If we go deeper into that question, we should do that in the AI thread or so.
>>16768 >This being said, a biological brain would provide such by default. Not necessarily, I doubt insects have emotions or a theory of mind. Now it would probably be easier to give a biocomputer a theory of mind and emotions because mycelium, geobacter, and animal neurons are all much more similar to the human brain than silicon transistors.
>>16770 This is as much a hardware question as it is a software question. Today's computers are not good at parallel processing and emotions require many parallel processes at once. Biological computers excel at parallel computing.
The dude that made the rate flight simulator has his own website. https://potterlab.gatech.edu
Biocomputers might start looking really attractive if supply chains keep getting disrupted or if Taiwan is invaded.
Gentlemen, peptide semiconductors https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5712217/ >Semiconductors are central to the modern electronics and optics industries. Conventional semiconductive materials bear inherent limitations, especially in emerging fields such as interfacing with biological systems and bottom-up fabrication. A promising candidate for bioinspired and durable nanoscale semiconductors is the family of self-assembled nanostructures comprising short peptides. The highly ordered and directional intermolecular π-π interactions and hydrogen-bonding network allow the formation of quantum confined structures within the peptide self-assemblies, thus decreasing the band gaps of the superstructures into semiconductor regions. As a result of the diverse architectures and ease of modification of peptide self-assemblies, their semiconductivity can be readily tuned, doped, and functionalized. Therefore, this family of electroactive supramolecular materials may bridge the gap between the inorganic semiconductor world and biological systems.
>>17874 This will be absolutely amazing when it is accomplished. And, unlike most other forms of radical-departure tech/science advances, this one is already a proven-feasible model. To wit: God created life itself, and used this approach. Like other bio-inspired or direct-biomimicry research/production efforts, this entire domain already has a major swath of an investor's considerations already proven. Thanks Anon.
>>17883 >it's behind a paywall though. This board certainly qualifies as a legitimate, ancillary research cadre for my work.
https://www.seantross.com/transmitting-nature Someone made a crude biocomputer using bacteria.
>>17934 Nice!
This is a piano being played by a biocomputer from back in 2015. This technology has only improved since then. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5y36KcWmBtw
>>17936 https://www.technologyreview.com/2021/11/09/1039107/e-coli-maze-solving-biocomputer/ Scientists also created a biocomputer using e.coli which is much easier to grow, modify, and keep alive. If someone could splice the genes nessicary for bacterial nanowires (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacterial_nanowires) from the geobacter into e. coli then a bacteria biocomputer might be viable.
>>17375 There aren't many new papers demonstrating extensive testing of biocomputing in journals like Nature: 1999: "Building the future of biocomputing" https://www.nature.com/articles/20063 2002: "The dawn of biocomputing?" https://www.nature.com/articles/nrg804 2014: "Biocomputing based on particle disassembly" https://www.nature.com/articles/nnano.2014.156 except for this recent article in 2019: "Pathways to cellular supremacy in biocomputing" https://archive.is/qU4so There's also this paper from 2015 in ScienceDirect about how biomolecular logic systems and enzyme gates can mimic boolean logic gates on digital computers: "Biocomputing — tools, aims, perspectives" https://archive.is/CDxIb The best places to look are always as direct to the source as possible, which usually means articles in scientific publications. A lot of tech sites are clickbait and only speculate about possible uses of tech without showing much demonstrable application of that tech.
>>17976 Towards a Physarum learning chip (2016) https://www.nature.com/articles/srep19948 Mining logical circuits in fungi (2022) https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-022-20080-3 Neurons in a dish learn to play Pong — what’s next? (2022) https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-022-03229-y Building an organic computing device with multiple interconnected brains (2015) https://www.nature.com/articles/srep11869 They definitely have a lot of work to do, but if it could be done then it would really cut down on costs.
>>17970 Hi Ribose! Welcome back. :^) >>17976 >>17988 Nice information links, lines. Thanks!
>>18003 The second one was me and it's good to be back.
>>18008 Ah, got it. I responded to your query in the other thread Ribose (>>18010). Hope you've been well, fren.
>>17988 Interesting links, specifically "Mining logical circuits in fungi" https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-022-20080-3 "Neurons in a dish learn to play Pong — what’s next?" https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-022-03229-y Title of entire article describing how in vitro Biological Neural Networks (BNNs) consisting of human-induced pluripotent https://stemcell.ucla.edu/induced-pluripotent-stem-cells and rodent stem cells are integrated with in silico computing through high-density multielectrode arrays (HD-MEAs) and exhibit control of the paddle in Pong is: "In vitro neurons learn and exhibit sentience when embodied in a simulated game-world" and available here: https://doi.org/10.1016/j.neuron.2022.09.001 Something that jumps out from the article on logical circuits in fungi is the part in the Discussion section where it says: "The first ever prototype of the fungal reservoir computer, presented in the paper, demonstrates that a computation can be embedded into living materials." Figure 1 in that article shows a schematic of the mycelium communications system. This setup where computation is embedded into living materials looks straightforward enough, at least for wiring microorganisms as part of biological computing. There's also this notable part in the Introduction section: "Fungal colonies are characterised by rich typology of mycelium networks in some cases similar to fractal structures. Rich morphological features might imply rich computational abilities and thus worth to analyse from a realising Boolean functions point of view." Regarding fractals in machine learning and biological cells, see: "Gene essentiality prediction based on fractal features and machine learning" https://doi.org/10.1039/C6MB00806B and "Motility-limited aggregation of mammary epithelial cells into fractal-like clusters" https://doi.org/10.1073/pnas.1905958116 If the number of transistors on silicon based chips does not increase in accordance with Moore's Law for a while, biological computing might be an alternative avenue to keep work on the most advanced and complex neural networks for robowaifus up to date. The application of biological computing for robowaifus and artificial wombs will have to be applied in a creative way, because while basic implementation of a biological computing system is straightforward, figuring out how to integrate it in a system like robowaifus or artificial wombs isn't.
>>17988 >They definitely have a lot of work to do, but if it could be done then it would really cut down on costs. While waiting on that, there is another potential way to improve neural networks such as using plastic neural networks (long form of Evolved Plastic Artificial Neural Networks (EPANNs)). More about this in the following article: "Born to learn: The inspiration, progress, and future of evolved plastic artificial neural networks" https://archive.is/0RX98 Through using elastic neural weights, the consistent problem in AI of catastrophic forgetting might be reduced: https://ai.sophos.com/2021/02/02/catastrophic-forgetting-part-1/ https://ai.sophos.com/2021/03/23/catastrophic-forgetting-part-2/ Also another way of reducing the problem of catastrophic forgetting in neural networks could be inducing a sleep-like state in the neural network (more about this in the Methods section "Simulated Sleep" in the following article): "Sleep prevents catastrophic forgetting in spiking neural networks by forming a joint synaptic weight representation" https://archive.is/7r5dT
>>18031 It's fascinating how as AI starts to mimic the brain it starts to require sleep just like the real thing.
>>18052 No doubt, sleep or at least a state of torpor is very important to organisms in general: "Sleep Drives Metabolite Clearance from the Adult Brain" https://archive.is/xx1zZ "Coupled electrophysiological, hemodynamic, and cerebrospinal fluid oscillations in human sleep" https://archive.is/PFbsD "Even though the definition of sleep ranges quite substantially across the animal world, it does appear that sleep is a universal requirement. It may not be the dream-inducing, catatonic state that we are familiar with, and it may not happen on a regular schedule, but all animals have established creative patterns for recharging their batteries" https://www.worldatlas.com/animals/animals-that-don-t-sleep.html If AI is to mimic processes and forming memories like in the human brain, it would likely need something similar to REM sleep at regular intervals.
Apparently plated, carbon nanotube yarns have unusual sensitivities to biosignals. Their use may be beneficial for not only potential biocomputing capacities of robowaifus, but also direct 'skin' contact sensing of her Master too. https://siddarmark.com/cnt-yarn-biologically-activity-sensors/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34624868/ >Abstract Memristors close the loop forI-Vcharacteristics of the traditional, passive, semi-conductor devices. A memristor is a physical realisation of the material implication and thus is a universal logical element. Memristors are getting particular interest in the field of bioelectronics. Electrical properties of living substrates are not binary and there is nearly a continuous transitions from being non-memristive to mem-fractive (exhibiting a combination of passive memory) to ideally memristive. In laboratory experiments we show that living oyster mushroomsPleurotus ostreatusexhibit mem-fractive properties. We offer a piece-wise polynomial approximation of theI-Vbehaviour of the oyster mushrooms. We also report spiking activity, oscillations in conduced current of the oyster mushrooms. The full article is paywalled so just use scihub.
>>18230 >is behind a paywall. HAHAHA DISREGARD THAT I SUCK COCKS Here's the full article and it's free. https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1748-3190/ac2e0c
https://phys.org/news/2021-06-fungal-electrical.html >To obtain a better idea, the researchers have proven that the complexity of this "language" is greater than that of many human languages in terms of communication. That reality opens up the possibility of using the signals as an efficient and practical means of information transmission and computing, giving fungi a very interesting potential as computers.
On spiking behaviour of oyster fungi Pleurotus djamor https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5959856/
>>18307 >>18308 These sound really exciting Ribose. It will be amazing if we can capitalize on this research effectively! :^)
Another mushroom related article. This one could potentially be useful for artificial wombs. Advanced mycelium materials as potential self-growing biomedical scaffolds https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-91572-x
>>18657 Yeah that's really neat Anon. Seems this could actually help in creating artificial organs that are effectively entirely-native to the host organism.
Building biological computers from bacterial populations https://cordis.europa.eu/project/id/770835 I notice that the EU is funding a lot of research into biocomputers right now. They are funding approaches using bacteria, slime molds, and mycelium. I wonder if the elites have finally caught on to the power of synthetic biology.
>>18663 It's definitely intriguing stuff Ribose. If the hurdles can be overcome, then there's practically an infinite variety of possible application of biocomputers. They could make Neuromorphics, well, neural. >Combining these compute/sensors/actuators elements all together into one compact, lightweight & inexpensive unit is the ideal here. (>>18636) Now imagine combining both the sensors & actuation electrical signalling together into something literall smaller than a grain of rice for, say, a robowaifu's knee joint.
> (bio-smell related - >>18861)
>Slime mould processors, logic gates and sensors https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/10.1098/rsta.2014.0216 Abstract >A heterotic, or hybrid, computation implies that two or more substrates of different physical nature are merged into a single device with indistinguishable parts. These hybrid devices then undertake coherent acts on programmable and sensible processing of information. We study the potential of heterotic computers using slime mould acting under the guidance of chemical, mechanical and optical stimuli. Plasmodium of acellular slime mould Physarum polycephalum is a gigantic single cell visible to the unaided eye. The cell shows a rich spectrum of behavioural morphological patterns in response to changing environmental conditions. Given data represented by chemical or physical stimuli, we can employ and modify the behaviour of the slime mould to make it solve a range of computing and sensing tasks. We overview results of laboratory experimental studies on prototyping of the slime mould morphological processors for approximation of Voronoi diagrams, planar shapes and solving mazes, and discuss logic gates implemented via collision of active growing zones and tactile responses of P. polycephalum. We also overview a range of electronic components—memristor, chemical, tactile and colour sensors—made of the slime mould.
>>20113 I predict this will eventually be accomplished, whether by slime-mold, other fungus, or some other biological system. You can build an entire transistor-based computer, using literally nothing but NAND gates, connectors, + external 'stimuli'. I'm sure we'll discover other means to achieve this than the typical computer approaches used thus far. Some of them may prove to be revolutionary, after maturing for enough time. >=== -prose edit
Edited last time by Chobitsu on 02/15/2023 (Wed) 03:13:16.
https://www.defenseone.com/technology/2016/08/military-genetically-modifying-bacteria-make-even-tinier-computers/130879/ The military taken an interest in bacterial nanowires. This was over 6 years ago so I wonder where they are now.
Improved methods for mass production of magnetosomes and applications: a review https://microbialcellfactories.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12934-020-01455-5 Not sure if magnetosomes will be useful for our robowaifus but I decided to show this paper because it is a good example of how bacteria are being used to produce nanoparticles.
>>20201 >because it is a good example of how bacteria are being used to produce nanoparticles. Neat!
Bioinspired bio-voltage memristors https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-020-15759-y Abstract >Memristive devices are promising candidates to emulate biological computing. However, the typical switching voltages (0.2-2 V) in previously described devices are much higher than the amplitude in biological counterparts. Here we demonstrate a type of diffusive memristor, fabricated from the protein nanowires harvested from the bacterium Geobacter sulfurreducens, that functions at the biological voltages of 40-100 mV. Memristive function at biological voltages is possible because the protein nanowires catalyze metallization. Artificial neurons built from these memristors not only function at biological action potentials (e.g., 100 mV, 1 ms) but also exhibit temporal integration close to that in biological neurons. The potential of using the memristor to directly process biosensing signals is also demonstrated.
https://phys.org/news/2022-11-bacterial-cells-artificial-neural-circuits.html Synthetic neuromorphic computing in living cells https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-0 Abstract >Computational properties of neuronal networks have been applied to computing systems using simplified models comprising repeated connected nodes, e.g., perceptrons, with decision-making capabilities and flexible weighted links. Analogously to their revolutionary impact on computing, neuro-inspired models can transform synthetic gene circuit design in a manner that is reliable, efficient in resource utilization, and readily reconfigurable for different tasks. To this end, we introduce the perceptgene, a perceptron that computes in the logarithmic domain, which enables efficient implementation of artificial neural networks in Escherichia coli cells. We successfully modify perceptgene parameters to create devices that encode a minimum, maximum, and average of analog inputs. With these devices, we create multi-layer perceptgene circuits that compute a soft majority function, perform an analog-to-digital conversion, and implement a ternary switch. We also create a programmable perceptgene circuit whose computation can be modified from OR to AND logic using small molecule induction. Finally, we show that our approach enables circuit optimization via artificial intelligence algorithms.
>>20262 >>20268 This is neat. Imagine if we have a soon breakthrough where we could have general-purpose computing of say an 8-bit complexity? It would change a whole lot of things!
This guy is growing mammalian cells at home... (it's complex) https://youtu.be/Z_ZGq8Tah0k https://github.com/thethoughtemporium/meatcubator
>>20813 >meatcubator LOL. This guy is clearly a funposter at heart. Hopefully he'll discover our little enclave here on /robowaifu/. :^)
>>20813 Thought emporium is based. He once made a ghost heart (decellularized pig heart) on his channel.
>>20813 For anyone that wants to do something like this at home here is where you can buy the supplies https://www.the-odin.com
From our academicians who were front-and-center in bringing the world The Coronahoax & Deadly Vaxx Follies, now comes a brand-new cliffhanger: Human Brains powering AI >This time, its the 'what could possibly go wrong?' edition https ://www.frontiersin.org/journals/science/articles/10.3389/fsci.2023.1017235 https ://hub.jhu.edu/2023/02/28/organoid-intelligence-biocomputers/ >=== -minor edit
Edited last time by Chobitsu on 03/02/2023 (Thu) 18:05:52.
>>20937 Thanks, Ribose!
>>20989 Human neurons seem like a really poor choice for biocomputers because they are very difficult to keep alive. Geobacter, slime molds, and mycelium look like more attractive options imo. It is strange that the neuron computers are a more mature technology than the other options.
>>21014 >Human neurons seem like a really poor choice for biocomputers because they are very difficult to keep alive. Geobacter, slime molds, and mycelium look like more attractive options imo. Makes perfect sense. Maybe if you could suspend the organoids in a bioreactor (instead of on a Petri dish), then you'd have a better shot at maintaining them in a functional state. Regardless, it's the optics that JHU is going for here first-and-foremost IMO. This bunch of miscreants are very clearly deeply ingrained with the Globohomo, and having a Frankenstein AI """loose""" could be made to serve their evil purposes in numerous ways. But ATM, in essence, this amounts to little more than a dog-and-pony-show useful to them primarily to guage public reaction, I suspect. >=== -prose edit
Edited last time by Chobitsu on 03/03/2023 (Fri) 17:29:53.
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>>21014 Yeah that bit about the braincells playing did creepy me the fuck out tbh. That's kind of where the ai ethics should kick in you know not whether it offends people...
>>21016 >That's kind of where the ai ethics should kick in you know Pardon me, but isn't that Bio Ethics, Anon? And, given the rampant abuses during Current Year, you can be quite sure that so-called AI """Ethics""" has little currency around these parts, heh. :^) >=== -minor edit
Edited last time by Chobitsu on 03/03/2023 (Fri) 07:50:32.
https://www.popsci.com/technology/unconventional-computing-lab-mushroom/ I know it's popsci but the I looked up the guy running the lab and he is doing some very interesting research. https://people.uwe.ac.uk/Person/AndrewAdamatzky
>>21025 https://scholar.google.com/citations?hl=en&user=suo5D8wAAAAJ A few of his publications >Kombucha electronics >Fungal Gray Matter >Electrical spiking of psilocybin fungi >Electrical potential spiking of kombucha zoogleal mats: a symbiotic community of bacteria and yeasts >Electrical frequency discrimination by fungi Pleurotus ostreatus >>17988 >Towards a Physarum learning chip >Mining logic circuits in fungi >Living wearables: Bacterial reactive glove >Fungal States of Minds He has tons of papers like these. He also has lots of papers on other forms of non-conventional computing.
I hate pay walls so much it's unreal. These journals don't even pay the fucking scientists for their work. If anyone knows a place other than scihub where I might be able to pirate these please let me know. https://www.researchgate.net/publication/264054783_An_arsenic-specific_biosensor_with_genetically_engineered_Shewanella_oneidensis_in_a_bioelectrochemical_system https://www.researchgate.net/publication/255752803_Bacteria-based_biocomputing_with_Cellular_Computing_Circuits_to_sense_decide_signal_and_act
https://www.advancedsciencenews.com/a-computing-system-made-from-heart-cells/ >https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/aisy.202200356 >Modern computers require an exponential increase in resources when solving computationally hard problems, motivating the need for an alternative computing platform to solve such problems in an energy-efficient manner. Vertex coloring, a nondeterministic polynomial time (NP-hard) combinatorial optimization problem, is one such problem. Herein, an experimental demonstration of using cardiac cell-based bio-oscillator network coupling dynamics to solve a vertex coloring problem in various scales of graphs using a simple cell patterning method to construct scalable and controlled cardiac cell networks is presented. Although there are limitations to using these cardiac cells as oscillators, such as their low frequency compared to complementary metal–oxide–semiconductor (CMOS) oscillators, that result in longer processing times, the accuracy in large graph instances, the significantly less amount of energy consumption, and the ease of fabrication and potential to extend this system to massively parallel 3D structures make the bio-oscillators a promising new platform for collective computing applications.
>>22547 Neat! Heart tissue is pretty remarkable in several ways. Wouldn't surprise me a bit if this effort eventually succeeds. Thanks Ribose! Cheers. :^)
>>22565 I'm sure one of these efforts will succeed. This is the third biocomputer to make headlines this year.
>>21014 youd have to provide them with food and oxygen somehow but i cant think of any other realistic way to make a sentient robowaifu. Honestly if ethics doesnt bother you simply growing a woman in an artificial womb to use as a sex slave would be much easier and cheaper
>>23032 >Honestly if ethics doesnt bother you simply growing a woman in an artificial womb to use as a sex slave would be much easier and cheaper Except it isn't, since artificial wombs don't exist in reality, and there also might be some legal issues. Also, we don't just develop sex slaves here but companions and mothers. Women will always be tempted to get 'their rights", while well developed robowaifus won't, even if they had the choice in terms of power and legalities.
>>23085 >while well developed robowaifus won't, even if they had the choice in terms of power and legalities. This. What's almost ironic in the end is that robowaifus will turn out to be much more like the form women were intended to be by God (helpful companions to a man), while Current Year Stronk, Independynts fancy themselves to be some kind of men. Lol.
>>21178 "...where I might be able to pirate these please let me know..." Here. They have a vast amount of articles. Click the "scientific papers" radio button and search. http://libgen.rs/ Just for fun I entered the papers you linked and both are there. Click on the article name or open ion new tab. At the next page will be download servers, (more than one usually), at the bottom to the right of "download". Sometimes you have to change up as some get canned.
>>23085 >artificial wombs don't exist in reality Actually some early prototypes do exsit and have been used to raise lambs with no oil effects. From egg to finish I don;t think has...publically. I expect that privately there are such thngs. A multi-millionare with a say ten year program funded at $10 million a year could likely do this "if" you totally disregarded ethics and destroyed all the beings that didn't work out. In fct a VERY IMPORTANT fact about reproduction is that eggs can be made from Female skin cells. It's THE SPERM that kicks off the dividing to start humans forming. So as soon as you get a artificial womb you could pay a girl for a few cells, combine with your sperm and have kids that no Women could take away from you. I personally think this will happen in the future and if Women wish to be a part of a family they will join a Males preexisting children family. The 2 kids and divorce tread mill is just too much risk for most Males and is getting worse.
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-023-37752-x >Biological computation is becoming a viable and fast-growing alternative to traditional electronic computing. Here we present a biocomputing technology called Trumpet: Transcriptional RNA Universal Multi-Purpose GatE PlaTform. Trumpet combines the simplicity and robustness of the simplest in vitro biocomputing methods, adding signal amplification and programmability, while avoiding common shortcomings of live cell-based biocomputing solutions. We have demonstrated the use of Trumpet to build all universal Boolean logic gates. We have also built a web-based platform for designing Trumpet gates and created a primitive processor by networking several gates as a proof-of-principle for future development. The Trumpet offers a change of paradigm in biocomputing, providing an efficient and easily programmable biological logic gate operating system. https://phys.org/news/2023-05-biocomputing-method-enzymes-catalysts-dna-based.html Not something that would likely be used in a robowaifu, but it's the 4th biocomputing approach to make headlines this year.
>>23263 well isn't this stuff creepy
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>>23263 >Here we present a biocomputing technology called Trumpet <not just stopping at 'Trump' :^) >providing an efficient and easily programmable biological logic gate operating system. This will be remarkable if they can pull it off effectively. In fact, I predict that it will be the combo of in vivo + in silico that will give rise to true manmade biocomputing. We'll never match what God fashioned with His DNA/RNA transcription and '3D printing' in protein :^) system, but still I think we can do much based off these templates. Thanks Anon, exciting stuff! Cheers. :^) >>23264 You should take that frown and turn it upside down Friend! :^) > >=== -minor fmt, edit
Edited last time by Chobitsu on 06/18/2023 (Sun) 03:58:10.
>>23118 >>>artificial wombs don't exist in reality >Actually some early prototypes do exsit Everyone here knows that. But it's besides the point, since it's an early prototype, especially the thing with the lamb is not for the early stages. This will require a much different approach. >eggs can be made from Female skin cells Actually, it's just human skin cells, not female. Which means men could have children without women, which would be weird and feels kinda gay. But, if we get to a point of making artificial cells from DNA in the lab as well, those wouldn't refer to a specific human. Then Sandman MGTOW had actually a good idea, in between his wild speculations and often bad ideas: Cloning is one thing, and he brought that up. Why even go on making humans from two people? Then he had the idea of just making these egg cells from one's owns cells. To use those for your own child. Which he also called cloning, where I disagree. That said, the idea is quite good. It might work better than real cloning. Also it might be easier to do it, bypassing laws and cutting down on the need of a female donor. You could let one lab make the egg cells from your skin cells, then go to some lab and tell them these are egg cells from a female donor. Then have them make a child from your own genetic material by fertilizing the egg cell... Well, I guess in a way it's like you'd had a child with your (not existing) twin sister, but I'm more comfortable with that, than picking another man as the skin (egg) cell donor for my child.
https://newatlas.com/computers/human-brain-chip-ai/ Cortical Labs just got funding from the U.S. military for their human brain based biocomputers.
>>24827 Wew lads, here we go! :^)
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-023-40163-z >Growing colonies of the split-gill fungus Schizophyllum commune show action potential-like spikes of extracellular electrical potential. We analysed several days of electrical activity recording of the fungus and discovered three families of oscillatory patterns. Very slow activity at a scale of hours, slow activity at a scale of 10 min and very fast activity at scale of half-minute. We simulated the spiking behaviour using FitzHugh–Nagume model, uncovered mechanisms of spike shaping. We speculated that spikes of electrical potential might be associated with transportation of nutrients and metabolites. This was done by the same guy doing the mushroom biocomputers.
https://www.researchsquare.com/article/rs-3292325/v1 >Advancements in mycelium technology, stemming from fungal electronics and the development of living mycelium composites and skins, have opened new avenues in the fusion of biological and artificial systems. This paper explores an experimental endeavour that successfully incorporates living, self-regenerating, and reactive Ganoderma sessile mycelium into a model cyborg figurine, creating a bio-cybernetic entity. The mycelium, cultivated using established techniques, was homogeneously grown on the cyborg model’s surface, demonstrating robust reactivity to various stimuli such as light exposure and touch. This innovative merger points towards the future of sustainable biomaterials and the potential integration of these materials into new and existing technologies.
New type of neural cell discovered, that might lead to better understanding of neural pathways. www.genengnews.com/topics/translational-medicine/scientists-identify-new-type-of-brain-cell-that-could-represent-targets-for-protective-cns-therapies/
>>2184 Creating lab grown women is the end game, but that isn't really a possibility right now. I think it's possible that we can create synthetic cells fit with basic cell functions to maintain the body's integrity. Controlled water absorption and excretion is needed. It's possible to make artificial glands using synthetic cells that function differently from the others. We could use water content in the body to have the glands produce lubricants. I'm thinking we use alginic acid to accomplish this. Then we could bind the synth cells together to form body parts. The mind portion of the body would still be computerized however.
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>>25340 Forgot the architecture diagram
>>25340 Aside from the super strength and built in weapons, armitage is by far the most similar to the likely end product when robowaifus become real. She is a hybrid system with both organic and electrical parts. Figuring out how to make a lab grown brain and muscle system would be by far the most realistic with the level of tech that currently exists
>>25340 A combination of both organic and electronic/mechanical component is the way to go in my opinion. AI is in reality not even remotely close to sentience and soft robotics suck ass. Lab grown brains, muscles and the support systems needed to provide them with oxygen and food is actually much closer to being feasible than sentient general ai is
Another biocomputer makes headlines. It is from China though so take it with grain of salt. https://www.thestack.technology/scientists-make-dna-computer-breakthrough/ >A team of researchers from China’s Shanghai Jiao Tong University have created what may be the world’s first programmable DNA computer. >In a paper published in prestigious magazine Nature they explained how they created DNA-based programmable gate arrays or “DPGAs” that can support more than 100 billion distinct computational circuits.
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-023-06484-9 >DNA-based programmable gate arrays for general-purpose DNA computing >The past decades have witnessed the evolution of electronic and photonic integrated circuits, from application specific to programmable1,2. Although liquid-phase DNA circuitry holds the potential for massive parallelism in the encoding and execution of algorithms3,4, the development of general-purpose DNA integrated circuits (DICs) has yet to be explored. Here we demonstrate a DIC system by integration of multilayer DNA-based programmable gate arrays (DPGAs). We find that the use of generic single-stranded oligonucleotides as a uniform transmission signal can reliably integrate large-scale DICs with minimal leakage and high fidelity for general-purpose computing. Reconfiguration of a single DPGA with 24 addressable dual-rail gates can be programmed with wiring instructions to implement over 100 billion distinct circuits. Furthermore, to control the intrinsically random collision of molecules, we designed DNA origami registers to provide the directionality for asynchronous execution of cascaded DPGAs. We exemplify this by a quadratic equation-solving DIC assembled with three layers of cascade DPGAs comprising 30 logic gates with around 500 DNA strands. We further show that integration of a DPGA with an analog-to-digital converter can classify disease-related microRNAs. The ability to integrate large-scale DPGA networks without apparent signal attenuation marks a key step towards general-purpose DNA computing.
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>>25568 >>25569 I'm not entirely sure about that given that there's always a possibility that you may be dealing with some necrotic tissue if it's not being properly supplied with nutrition. Lab grown organic animal cells are still in their infancy stages with a lot of regulations and moral/ethical concerns impeding further development. I'm all for it as i'm an anarcho capitalist, but there are too many factors at play right now regarding that stuff. Alginic hydrogel is more than appropriate for making soft muscle actuators and other body parts for gynoids. Not to mention how well it is with being anti-microbial. What we do with this approach wil act as a stepping stone for further development inching us toward our goal of fixing the woman problem. My idea has a lot of holes as all of the others do regarding fabrication and lack of adequate R&D, but it'll just have to sit on the shelf for now with all of the other grandiose things I've thought up. I have more important matters to tend to for now. My primary concern is with the advent of government creeping into every facet of normal life. This will also affect any robot wife progress that could happen in the foreseeable future. I'm taking proactive measures to gain the knowledge required to build tools that will allow me and other people to circumvent this phenomenon. For now, sex bots maids will just have to sit on the shelf.
State of the Womb - The Economist: Are artificial wombs the future? https://www.youtu.be/hBSSb462_Z4 - the typical retarded comments from people programmed by entertainment and lack of thinking.
>>26171 >people don't think like me therefore they were brainwashed by the media
>>26185 did anyone ever say anything about incubators other than saddam-hussein=bad, cognitive dissonance is an obvious sign of being indoctrinated
https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2024.01.21.576528v1 Functionalising the electrical properties of Kombucha zoogleal mats for biosensing applications Kombucha is a type of tea that is fermented using yeast and bacteria. During this process, a film made of cellulose is produced. This film has unique properties such as biodegradability, flexibility, shape conformability, and ability to self-grow, as well as be produced across customised scales. In our previous studies, we demonstrated that Kombucha mats exhibit electrical activity represented by spikes of electrical potential. We propose using microbial fermentation as a method for in situ functionalisation to modulate the electroactive nature of Kombucha cellulose mats, where graphene and zeolite were used for the functionalisation. We subjected the pure and functionalised Kombucha mats to mechanical stimulation by applying different weights and geometries. Our experiments demonstrated that Kombucha mats functionalised with graphene and zeolite exhibit memfractive properties and respond to load by producing distinctive spiking patterns. Our findings present incredible opportunities for the in situ development of functionalised hybrid materials with sensing, computing, and memory capabilities. These materials can self-assemble and self-grow after fusing their living and synthetic components. This study contributes to an emergent area of research on bioelectronic sensing and hybrid living materials, opening up exciting opportunities for use in smart wearables, diagnostics, health monitoring and energy harvesting applications.
>>28786 Interedasting. So it sound kind of like you could conceivably grow a sensory-network for a robowaifu (say, under her 'skin') using this approach. >memfractive Lol, that's a new one on me. Had to look it up. :D
>>28788 This is exactly what I was hoping for in the long run. That we would get there at some point.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S2590238523006483 Biohybrid bipedal robot powered by skeletal muscle tissue Recently, there has been a growing interest in the development of biohybrid robots that combine synthetic components with biological materials, aiming to incorporate advanced biomaterial functions into robotic systems. Conventional biohybrid robots excel in large turning movements. To address this limitation, we report a biohybrid robot equipped with two legs and cultured skeletal muscle tissue, emphasizing the replication of subtle turning movements observed in human bipedal locomotion. The robot successfully demonstrated forward-stop motions and accurate turning compared to conventional biohybrid robots. These findings offer valuable insights for the advancement of soft robots powered by muscle tissue and have the potential to contribute to a deeper understanding of biological locomotion mechanisms. This constructive approach may pave the way for further mimicking the intricacies of the human gait mechanism in biohybrid robotics development.
>>28812 I'm starting to get Evangelion vibes from this ngl

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