>>242
You can make a capacitive touch sensor pretty easily

Like if there's 2 conductive surfaces and when they move closer together or further apart the charge potential between them changes

Wish I had money to experiment with this stuff. It'd go well with silicone skin covering it, but how would we incorporate it into the hands and face? How flexible are piezoelectric film sensors?

hoshistar81.jp/skin/nonlinear/nonlinear.html
hoshistar81.jp/skin/cellbridge/cellbridge.html
hoshistar81.jp/skin/robotskin/robotskin.html

You can make a touch sensor using foil and a 1+ megaohm resistor. If the skin is thin enough the capacitance can be detected even without touching the foil.

drive.google.com/file/d/0BzI1z5n4uz3GeFZMbEdwX1ZmT3M/view

I remember eons ago I even made one without a microcontroller, I don't remember the setup though, using a 555 timer.

However we have to do it, this is important at the very least for sex with our robowaifus, and is probably also very important for her when she's doing things like cleaning the dishes, cooking, or other mundane tasks that require both judgement in action, as well as sensitivity in manipulation. I imagine there are literally 1'001 activities where at least sensitive touchpads of various sizes and shapes, strategically placed around the robowaifu's body, will be of essence.

A way must be found to do this guys, effectively and cheaply. It needs to be mass-producible.

>>675
You could just have a sheet of silicone with various touch receptors all over it. Now, making pain receptors? That, I have no clue.

>>675
ANOTHER IDEA: we could just steal a harmony unit, skin it, and reverse engineer the technology they use to make the skin, so we can make something like Jenny the Robot with flexible skin in the right spots.

>>677
Dude, Harmony skin is just silicone, it's not rocket science, however it's a laborious process.

www.smooth-on.com/

Not to mention the material costs. Sex dolls tend to be handmade, that's why you end up paying 500+ for 10 pounds of silicone.

>>673
>How flexible are piezoelectric film sensors?
pretty dang flexible, they're thin films.

>>672
>>674
This. Or dot her skin with diffuse infrared sensors which can not only help her navigate, but also measure your body heat and pulse.

>>675
So, I've noticed that a lot of the Uncanny Valley thing mainly stems from how most sex dolls lack any kind of facial muscles. They're mainly just rubber or silicone wrapped around a skeleton. The guy that made the Shinobu Simulator, managed to work-out some of the uncanny valley to the models by implementing "muscle groups," to the face of the character. Now, since we're working with something physical rather than something digital, why not give a robot artificial muscles for facial expressions? It would look a lot nicer and probably smoother in its movements.

Or, maybe if someone could recreate neurons, then you could hook up said neurons to both the skeleton and the muscles for a robot. Then you have them end inside the artificial skin. Make sure some of the ends are sensors with a feed-back to the computer and there you go. A Robot that can feel things. Bonus points if you can have internal heat that is generated to vent through the skin and muscles. The ONLY thing I would find hard to replicate would be those fake neurons. Unless, someone made a vat-grown clone-thing?
Sorry for the rant, its just my two cents on everything Yes, its all easier said than done

>>864
Yes, facial animation is a big challenge to overcome the Uncanny Valley and make our robowaifus charming anon--even if they are intentionally designed to be less realistic looking (especially in the beginning years of production).

>The guy that made the Shinobu Simulator, managed to work-out some of the uncanny valley to the models by implementing "muscle groups," to the face of the character.
Using 'Blendshapes' or 'Morph targets' is a commonplace approach to facial animation. IIRC the VivaDev guy said he is a professional in the industry doing it as a side hobby.

>why not give a robot artificial muscles for facial expressions?
Cost. One of the reasons for having robotic-looking robowaifus in the beginning is ease of engineering and cost reduction.

Your notion about artificial neurons is indeed quite far-fetched atm, imo. Ofc, we plan to simulate these functions using regular wiring and more commonplace engeneering sensors.

>Bonus points if you can have internal heat that is generated to vent through the skin and muscles.
Trust me, we'll have all the 'bonus' points we can handle. Dissipating heat effectively will be a major Systems Engineering challenge to begin with anon.
>>234

No apologies, thanks for the input anon. Yes, it's easier said than done, but someone has to say it all, right? :^)

>also
sauce on the stretchy light thing?

>>865

zmescience.com/research/technology/stretchable-artificial-skin-423/

>>925
thanks mate, bookmarked.

>tfw robowaifus will have full-haptic sensing vaginas with precision women don't even have
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWC3if29T-I
The future cannot come soon enough

>>1623
That's pretty exciting anon. Looks like robowaifu skin may eventually exceed even my hopes for it.

This is bit of a strange project but it has an interesting idea of using light to detect deformations in silicone gel skin to get tactile feedback. https://bair.berkeley.edu/blog/2020/05/14/omnitact/ https://arxiv.org/pdf/2003.06965.pdf

>>3648 That is interesting Anon. At least one of my robowaifus I want to be able to glow-in-the-dark NO NOT A CIANIGGER HAHA and having glowy fingertips would be breddy cool tbh. What kind of hardward costs do you think we could get something like this down to?

>>3649 About $15 for two 640x480 cameras and the LEDs.

>>3655 Hmm, about $300 for just the fingers and toes? Pretty expensive. I guess that will have to wait for better models. :^)

>>3656 Sensors will be one very important factor which will make a difference in price. This is unavoidable, let alone for the extra work. All these signals will also need to be handled by microcontrollers and then by the AI. I personally will go for the expensive model, but build it on my own. Even if they will cost 10-15k it's still worth it.

>>4284 Yes, that's one of the great things about DIY Robot Wives. Individual garage labs can do prototyping (which is always more expensive than production after tooling costs regardless) without rigid regard for pressures like schedules and budgets. It can become a work of love. >Even if they will cost 10-15k it's still worth it. Actually, high-end robowaifus will probably cost about as much as high-end cars do. We can probably help that a bit, but you can bet Teslawaifu, Googlewaifu, Facebookwaifu, et al, will squeeze it for all they can get away with.

I was going to mention this in the Robot Vision General thread, but I figure I'd resurrect this thread instead. I remembered seeing that someone made a proof-of-concept camera out of solar cells, but I can't find it anymore. It was greyscale, very low resolution and probably had a lousy refresh rate, but it was a functioning digital camera. I loved this idea because if it's improved enough you've got a digital camera that generates power instead of consuming it. Then I remembered this post: >>3648 where light is used to detect deformation in skin for touch sensing. I had no interest in flexible solar panels before, but what if there were a flexible solar panel acting as a camera beneath a layer of skin to create a sense of touch? When it's not being touched or covered, the body is passively absorbing light and trickle-charging the battery. The LEDs could be visible if you really want, or they could be infrared (panels with good infrared sensitivity are better in winter) and give the body a similar thermal image to a real human body and be warm to the touch. And some self-warming holes when you feel her from the inside. ;)

>>13235 I've often thought about the notion that at the very least we should add trickle-charging to various parts of our robowaifu's outer shell designs. Can't really think through some of the issues. But, I would be off-topic here since it's a Power issue. Your pic made me think of it. Sauce on that BTW?

>>13240 >But, I would be off-topic here since it's a Power issue. I didn't really mean for it to be about power as much as about trying to create a passive-energy sense of touch using flexible materials. >Your pic made me think of it. Sauce on that BTW? I just did an image search for flexible solar panels, but it's: https://www.ecowatch.com/best-flexible-solar-panels-2654431234.html

>>13280 Thanks Anon.

Multifunctional flexible and stretchable graphite-silicone rubber composites: >>17202

>>17203 >>17213

I made a comment in the 3D thread on an idea I had. Make a 3D knitting machine to make skin suits. >>23350 For backing of the knitting I envision silicon or some sort of stretchy rubber. You could embed sensors in this. To do so you make a full size model. Could be hollow, to drape the skin on. Put on mold release. Now on top of the mold release you could have contacts. There's various inks. Powered carbon can be used for this. You then sculpt silicon, or whatever rubber, over the mold and lower contact. Before you add the skin you add another set of contacts of carbon or whatever, then the knitted skin suit is stretched over the mold to dry. Now you have a skin suit that if pressed changes the resistance or the capacitance of the different electrodes. After looking at knitting I think it may be better to crochet. If you could work out a smooth knot type to use. It seems much more conducive to mechanization.

I found some microfiber finally on amazon, Nice pink waifu microfiber skin. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08ZB17SVL/ref=sspa_dk_detail_2?pd_rd_i=B08ZBNQLL9&pd_rd_w=2JRBE&content-id=amzn1.sym.eb7c1ac5-7c51-4df5-ba34-ca810f1f119a&pf_rd_p=eb7c1ac5-7c51-4df5-ba34-ca810f1f119a&pf_rd_r=R3BT87QK7QRYSZ0RQHMT&pd_rd_wg=HQXkW&pd_rd_r=96b1967e-a6e5-4cbd-8f2b-b52b5c3e2df9&s=arts-crafts&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9kZXRhaWw&th=1 Not too expensive either.

>>23354 >Make a 3D knitting machine to make skin suits Had the same idea, and I know that there are makers having such machines. But this isn't as widespread as 3D printing and I thing these are rather big. Going with a full body spandex suit or making parts out of a different material will be easier. Weaving ropes or strings into some 3D part, while maybe combining it with other elements, would be on another level, and require making our own machines capable of doing that.

I don't want the waifu to be a hack job of recycled garbage. Money is not a reason not to use use silicon rubber or whatever else. How much is silicon rubber? like $6 a kilo? The plan is to make the waifu 1 meter tall I heard. That's fine really how much is that 20 kilos? So it might be $120 that ain't shit.50 kilos? $300 whatever. Ideally I'd like to keep the cost under $2000 though.

>>23365 >Going with a full body spandex suit or making parts out of a different material will be easier. Sure it will but it will have lines as I said at the beginning. I'm trying to get rid of these. In fact it may not be a big detail but for some reason it bothers me. Even though I know the other woven suit would look fake also, the mere fact that it's continuous seems to add some sort of, it's good, psychological effect. Sometimes it's the little things that matter a great deal. Maybe it's just me that sees this as a problem but it's annoyed me from the beginning. >Weaving ropes or strings into some 3D part, while maybe combining it with other elements, would be on another level, and require making our own machines capable of doing that. Before you write this idea off completely look at a couple of knitting and crochet 101 videos. They are done with a couple of needles or a needle with a hook on it. There's nothing big about this at all. I can envision this as a gripper or two to hold the work as it's done and something akin to a sewing machine mechanism that just makes continuous knots. It goes in, grabs the thread, twist, pulls out, over and over. The big machines you see are industrial things so they can throw together an outfit in a few seconds or minute or two. They also are working with a lot of colors vastly complicating things. We can go slower and if you had to, over time speed it up with experience. Crochet stabs the material. loops around, grabs a line and pulls it back. If you could find the right weave it's seriously repetitious. The computing for this is as simple as can be compared to normal 3D prints. You make an outline, and just crochet or weave the length needed. I thought about the mold again. The body mold could be in parts. So you print them then use built in interior brackets to bolt, or even better, snap them together. I also thought that instead of a positive mold you make a sort of, negative mold. Turn the skin inside out and spray, putty or whatever your elastic on the outside. That way you could add electrodes or whatever as you do it. Let dry and turn inside out again. Some context. Every since I heard Musk talk about looking at the very lower level of how things are done I tend to game this sort of thinking. Not that a good deal of it will not be wrong but it can't hurt to think about it. What is the idea. If you buy some spandex suit you're going to have to sew it. If you can get a machine to build it from scratch...well that saves a vast amount of time and sewing. Sewing sucks. That's why we get Women to do it.

>>23367 >silicon rubber Silicon is really sort of shitty. It tears very easy. At the least you would have to add reinforcement. They have all these new polyurethane type stuff like TUP, TEP, or whatever I think might be better. Maybe not. TPE sounds good and can be repaired with a heating iron. Silicon can not be repaired that I know of. https://plasticranger.com/what-is-tpe-material/ 3' is too small. I promise you if you make them that size then you will have political trouble and not be able to sell them. They will say they are children even if they have 36 DDD tits. I expect if you made them 5' or 5.5' they would be more accepted. I'm not against silicon as an underlayment but it is really shit for the surface. Sticky, gets dirty easy. Hard to clean. I think it sucks. In order to cut cost and get a nice squishy feel we are likely going to have to have balloon type muscles with some air in them. 20kg = 44 lbs. Silicon is roughly $100 USD for 10 lbs. So more like over $400 and I bet it would be more. Small Women 100 lbs. So there's a lot of weight in meat and muscle. "...The human skeleton represents approximately 14% of the average human male's weight and 10% of the average human female's weight..." Quick search... Muscle mass percentage averages for women Age Muscle mass percentage 18–35 31–33 36–55 29–31 56–75 27–30 76–85 < 26

>>23370 This one is made of silicon TPE it says: https://gelance.en.made-in-china.com/product/cwMAmRaBsUpu/China-New-Design-Sex-Doll-Realistic-Sexy-Love-Dolls-Silicone-TPE-Sexdoll-Real-Sexy-Adult-Dol.html I can't seem to find liquid silicon TPE though. It might not be ideal but I'd go with whichever is less tricky to work with really.

>>23367 >the waifu Which one? I think most of us understand what we are doing as working on frameworks. >>23369 > If you buy some spandex suit you're going to have to sew it. I don't get what you mean, but that's partially because you're so verbose. Write less, say more. Both of you seem to assume it's some kind of textile or fabric on one hand or silicone rubber on the other. I never indicated that. The rubber holds onto the textile parts, the outer skin should always be silicone rubber.

>>23372 I don't think the spandex or textile is really necessary or is it? I looked into this video for reference: https://youtu.be/USvTtyaj6Go

Correction. Silicon is stronger than TPE.

>>23372 >Write less So you say my writing is problem but start talking about spandex. Well what are we to think? Now your saying silicon...over spandex???, what's the use of that? I'm verbose because I have always said I don't like silicon and think microfiber is far smoother and easier to clean but that's not the norm. I know that. To make that clear requires, words. I'm willing to bet that my "verbosity" made that fairly clear what I was aiming for. But it seems to offend you. But I'll talk less.

>>23379 So the skin is going to go on top of a shell which is going to be the exoskeleton for that houses the inner parts. So I think my approach would be that after the shell is finished to get some paper clay and press the shell onto the clay, make it dry and then do the slush casting with the silicon or something like that. I don't know.

>>23379 Now I get it, you want to use something like microfiber instead of silicone skin. I really forgot about that and didn't know. >But it seems to offend you. No, I never wrote that, I just meant I sometimes find it hard to understand your point and it's a lot to read. Fact is, you write longer comments than others. >willing to bet that my "verbosity" made that fairly clear It makes it harder to find the line of thought by going back to older comments and look there, because these are very long. >>23376 >I don't think the spandex or textile is really necessary or is it? There are concerns that silicone rubber would tear after a while. There's the idea to have silicone rubber which would be able to stretch a lot, but it is constraint by it's connection to a textile. So it won't be stressed too much. Also, maybe in some cases, we might want it thinner than recommended with rubber only. >>23371 These soft TPE dolls are being "baked", look for videos about Chinese sexdoll factories on Youtube.

>>23358 Nice. Thanks Grommet!

>>23381 No, I never wrote that, I just meant I sometimes find it hard to understand your point and it's a lot to read. Don't read my comments. Cost you nothing. Don't comment on things if you don't understand them with insults like,"Write less, say more..." You don't understand ask a question. The reason I said "i must have offended you" is your dick head response. What do you expect in return if you talk to people that way. I think you just don't like me. And that's fine but a decent person would just refrain from interacting with me not trying to attack me. If you want to criticize me for some technical reason I'm perfectly fine with that. I will answer and if I think you are right I'll say so. If I can't agree I will say that, provide some sort of counter argument, but if that doesn't convince you then I leave it alone as it's not worth belaboring the point forever. >Fact is, you write longer comments than others. So...maybe instead of talking about a way to get a customized super soft microfiber skin I should say, "wow skin is hard" like Barbie. Unfortunately this is one of those things that is difficult to explain but the actual motions of knitting and crocheting are not super difficult. That millions of tons of this stuff are made every year on big machines that "used" to be made by hand in peoples cottages ...forever in the past, means we might could 3D print such a machine for ourselves. Anyone who wants to know what I'm taking about look at a few "knitting" and "crocheting" 101 videos and you will see. The various stitches CAN get super complex but the basic ones are not at all. They teach them to little children. I think this can be automated with 3D printers. >willing to bet that my "verbosity" made that fairly clear It makes it harder to find the line of thought by going back to older comments and look there, because these are very long. And you, specifically YOU, are one that's complained about people talking off topic in threads. I agree. That's why I try to put things in the threads they belong but there's just no getting around the fact that talking about 3D printing in the 3D printing thread, to make 3D printed machines, to make automated skin suits for waifus can not be all in one place. And different aspects of that will tend to roam about because it's a big ass subject. cont.

cont. Now I'm really going to annoy you because not only will I be verbose I will use entirely unrelated things to make broad general statements and link a bunch of shit I said before. The reason I write verbose long stuff is because I'm strongly interested in the basics. The base of what needs to be done for an outstanding product. Not some silicon gross thing but something that feels great, looks great and is easy to care for. I've for a long time thought in a manner of thinking, this way, about most things. It was only when Elon Musk stated it as like a rule to follow that I really woke up and from then on I try to systematically think this way. He said that any thing you do you need to think about the lowest level of what you are doing. Is there a better way and is there unnecessary steps that are done just for the sake of,"well we always did it this way". There's a video by this guy named Kurt Sorenson. He used to work for NASA and now owns a company attempting to make molten salt nuclear reactors. I think just like this guy. I have even read all the books that he mentioned before I saw his video. If you have any interest in nuclear power, even the slightest, then this video of him is the best thing you will ever see in your life. You will really gain a good understanding of how nuclear power works and why decisions were made for them to be as they are now. It's long. It's also a fairly decent representation of the way I think. He went through a process of looking at the steps needed to make nuclear power viable, profitable and much, much safer. Kirk Sorensen @ PROTOSPACE on Liquid Fluoride Thorium Reactors 2:36:45 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVSmf_qmkbg So I'm verbose but here's some verbosity I engaged in. I tried to look at the power requirements needed and how much this cost. >>12014 I even talked about better skin way back under the name El Goucho Domino which I changed because I felt it was too aggressive and annoying and that, I do not want to be, with the caveat that if people are rude to me I will be so to them also. >8311 I talked a lot about "dielectric elastomers" until I finally realized that, right now, there's no way to get over the high voltage problems needed for them. I talked a shit load about actuators in this thread >>10620 and the subsequent one >>12929 because they are really the basis of the whole effort. Without good actuators and "cheap" actuators we might as well fuck silicon sleeves. I talked several times about what are the power requirements needed. This in turn determines the battery and power requirements. We need to know this stuff. Just making it up will cost time and money. >>12014 >>12140 >>13408 Operating systems and what and how many processors for proper operation >>12474 Low cost and common networks for nervous systems >>12481 Ways that people have come up with to possibly dramatically by a factor of ten increase the power of neural nets. >>18652 I could go on. And in most instances I talk about cost. A lot. I bring things I find then may times I've subsequently changed my mind because of cost. if we want a lot of these that will have to be cheap. Someone said they didn't want to spend over $2,000 and I expect that's correct for them to really take off. So there's no way to talk about this broad range of things without being "verbose" or skipping around a bit because processors are hooked to the muscles which a many different types of actuators, it goes on and on. I'm beginning to think commenting on the internet is just a huge waste of time for me. I have a have habit of trying to think about the base level of things and it does take a good bit of verbiage. And I also have wild ideas that are are little bit loopy and out of the box. For some reason, (herd instinct???), this just drives some people nuts. It really pisses them off and instead of talking about the idea or trying to refute it they say some stupid shit like,"Write less, say more". Some people I think can just not help themselves from attacking anyone who doesn't say what they want or think. I've quit several places because of this," just kill yourself", commenting. So then people can just say the same shit over and over and be really happy. Never looking at alternatives. Even if mine are wrong it doesn't cost you a thing to scroll down and not read it.

>>23376 >I don't think the spandex or textile is really necessary or is it? For some, not at all. My reasons for not liking it are, 1. It cost a lot. That stuff is super expensive. Look up the cost. 2. I hate the feel of silicon. Sticky and gross, to me. 3. I like microfiber because it's really soft. Try felling some microfiber sheets. Remember there's two kinds. The sheet and fabric kind and the towel drying kind. The towel drying kind is kind of grabby and less soft because it has split fibers in it to soak up water. 3. Having a stretchable, removable covering makes the waifu modular. You can replace the skin. People regrow skin, waifus do not so they need to be replaced. Now you could use silicon but...I hate it, but some people may like gummy, sticky waifus. I had one guy say he liked the sound of washing machine waifus, so who knows.

To get an idea of why I think crochet or knitting could be automated look at a little of this video. She has good stuff. There's a massive amount of crochet and knitting stuff online. Here's a good one. Keep in mind this is large thread. To make a skin suit you would want tiny thread like they have in sheets. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMLaNEtWUq8 The basic idea being to make a chain stitch like she shows but instead of doubling back keep going around in a circle. The different volumes would be made by stitching one row bigger or lessor than the last. Basically exactly like 3D printing but you are laying down rows of stitches instead of plastic. Crochet uses one needle, best as I can tell, and knitting two. I found a good source of knitting at the gay knit boy channel. Here's a video of his. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQ4RO1R6FrI I have no idea whether knitting or crochet would be the best way to go. Knitting of course looks to require two needles so may be more complicated but it might be easier to automate. I don't know.

>>23402 You are projecting a lot into what I wrote. > And I also have wild ideas that are are little bit loopy and out of the box ... instead of talking about the idea or trying to refute it they say some stupid shit like,"Write less, say more" It meant it just as I explained: Finding out what the topic is,which you are writing about is sometimes difficult. It's not an insult and I have noting to do with people telling you to "just kill yourself".

Friendly reminder that silicone impregnate cloth is fantastic. The idea of using microfiber as the base is a fantastic idea. Just apply it to a skintight microfiber body stocking. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_R0gEDZhAI Silicone can easily be turned into a touch sensor. Mix in some conductive powder. Problem being, that will lead to black silicone skin. Most easy to use conductive powders such as carbon, are dark or black. A touch sensitive under skin may work. TPU and TPE are the best materials if she's 3D printed. As for 3D knitting, it's far more difficult than you'd think. Tooling for cloth production is not cheap and requires high tolerances. Best to just use what's already available. I do understand the aversion to seems but, seems aren't worth millions to avoid. Even the high-end Tesla Bot has many seems.

>>23402 >because I'm strongly interested in the basics. Always the key to long-term success! :^)

>>23445 >I do understand the aversion to seems but, seems aren't worth millions to avoid. This. Blue-sky spitballing is always important in the beginning, but eventually the 'rubber has to meet the road'. Practical realities must always be accounted for. We must be both creative and independent thinkers, as well as pragmatists (as all pioneers need to be). Right now costs need to be basically our chief concern IMO. We've already explored much of the fundamental design space for robowaifus, I deem. Time for the Model A designs (read: simple, inexpensive) to begin to materialize.

>>23450 Okay I agree with that. Let's just work on the exoskeleton tbh, it was voted on and it makes sense to me that it'd be a good starting point anyways. I'd work with kiwi but I already said I want to sell mine and the author of that model doesn't want people to sell it so I think I'll just make mine from scratch and avoid this landmine. In blender though. I'm almost done with the speech to speech with waifu ai. In the mean time if people around here can get acquainted with solidworks or freecad so they can contribute that'd be a good idea. Also although necessary I think git commands are important too. If anybody here wants to do AI please focus on the movement and not entirely on the chatbot please. I've been trying to avoid the pi's cause they're so expensive but i might end up needed one tbh. Maybe look into hooking up a raspberry pi to 1 or 2 arduinos and experimenting. Also if somebody could look into the o3de or unreal engine simulations on the mean time that'd also be good cause we can do this thing faster that way. If somebody could figure out the skin that'd be great too ofcourse cause I'm not sure how to go about doing that but not just talking about like come on man purchase the materials. These are suggestions ofcourse but suggestions with an exclamation point cause this thing has been stagnant for too long.

>>23450 >Right now costs need to be basically our chief concern Pure cost and instant do ability, but with seams, search for "fully elasticized fitted sheets" then look for the microfiber ones. One thing I'm not clear on is if the elastic is all through the sheet or just the corners. It may be that you can sew the shape you want, turn inside out on a form, spread silicon or whatever. The form would be tight so when you put it on the waifu the silicon would pull it tight.

>>23406 >"Write less, say more" It meant it just as I explained: Finding out what the topic is,which you are writing about is sometimes difficult. It's not an insult You trying to tell me you understood "nothing", nothing at all about what I said? Such that you could ask a question to get me to clarify, and then instead of doing that say, "Write less, say more" If you don't understand why that's insulting then you have some sort of mental neurological problem relating to people and how what you say will perceived by them. People with low level autism say stuff like this all the time. If you would have said, "you are hard to understand and I do not understand, this or that, I would not have been offended", but you didn't.

>>23463 low level autism people don't say anything at all lol. well I know spandex is cheap, you could get a little bit of silicon and do some tests. It doesn't have to be a barrel. I being relatively broke might be the one who ends putting this thing together in the end because its going to cost some money. You know even though I'm relatively broke. Doesn't the stuff you were talking about come in pellet form? Really you could get like a jar of that stuff. Would be cool seeing some real world progress instead of swapping news and articles back and forth for... years...

>>23464 >Doesn't the stuff you were talking about come in pellet form? Really you could get like a jar of that stuff I'm not sure what you are referencing. If it's microfiber. No, it's micro due to very small holes they extrude it through and blast of air. Silicon, yes.

>>23464 >low level autism people don't say anything at all I see that more as HIGH level autism. Meaning more of it. Low meaning less.

>>23445 I've done experiments with conductive silicone skin and the conductive powder is terrible for many reasons (resolution, homogeneous mixing, opacity, low conductivity, curing inhibition, and more). Chopped carbon fiber in silicone works the best but isn't as flexible and can tear apart easily. What works the best is embedding a flexible conductor of any kind in a grid inside the silicone. Conductive grease and coils of wire/carbon fiber work. As long as it's highly conductive you can make a capacitive sensor grid and use a teensy LC to give you a readout.

>>23607 Has this really never been posted here? I was sure I did, or someone else. >pressure sensor matrix https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JBSHqUcaG4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0uPZwMg5B3k Hard to build though. - Wherever possible we should go for something like GelSight, or at least in the parts which need the best resolution (fingertips). - Then there's the concept of a wire around a flexible rope. If it is stretched something can be measured (magnetism I assume). - By looking for the pressure matrix I also found sensors for beds. This might be worth looking into. I guess this is what "embedding a flexible conductor" in >>23607 meant.

>>23607 what about just using magnetic induction, like a guitar pickup, bunch of small magnetic dots spread out far underneath the skin where theres probably already going to be normal wiring, the skin on the surface wouldnt need to be conductive at all it just needs some flecks of metal spread out to disturb the magnetic field and induce a current

>>23613 Hmm, that looks interesting.

>>23613 That seems a pretty clever idea anon. How smol do you think the dots can be and still be effective at this? What about the conductors to the digital sensors reading the inducted signal, just a mesh of hair-thin wire maybe?

>>23623 no idea, the ones on guitars are already pretty small and sensitive but the coils seem long, that might be because its for an instrument, if you lightly scratch the string with your finger youll hear it picked up in the amplifier, im guessing it doesnt need to be that long if youre not interested in that level of sensitivity and just want it as a simple sensor, the magnet still has be strong enough to reach the skin though so depends how far away its going to be it doesnt have to be strings specifically, you just need something magnetic in the field like a steel ball or powdered rust in the skin, when it moves up/down you get a +/- current

For some quick basic ideas about capacitive sensing I found an interesting link that provides basic info. https://www.allaboutcircuits.com/technical-articles/introduction-to-capacitive-touch-sensing/ I don't know how well they work put the ESP32 micro-controller I always marvel at has capacitive sensing circuits built in. 10 × touch sensors (capacitive sensing GPIOs) It looks interesting. I also found a Texas Instruments tech brief that covers some of the same.

>>23626 I see, thanks Anon! Seems worthy of experiments IMO. Cheers.

>>23630 >he ESP32 micro-controller I always marvel at has capacitive sensing circuits built in. I'd forgotten that. Thanks Grommet!

>>23626 >guitar cord sensor There's certainly enough space in the thighs for example. Fantastic idea. >23612 >rubber cords or strings (to buy) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzsSNkoYoXU >soft fabric sensors https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZqryncwI7g

Here we go. Now I know people will say I'm contradicting myself and I am. Wanting a perfect smooth skin and now showing something, I like, that is none of that but...I just like it. Hexagonal flexible solids made by NASA. This is so cool. I bet it would look great on a robowaifu. And it's definitely doable. Would be great in TPU so you can stretch it on. Maybe there might be a way you could print this in sections and then use some sort of fastener to tie the sections together. Maybe you could make the hexagons smaller and round the edges a little. Here's a link to a reddit article on it, https://www.reddit.com/r/3Dprinting/comments/144gjsd/3d_printed_hexagonal_chain_mail_matrix_designed/ a search term "Nasa chainmail" An actual stl file to print https://www.printables.com/model/205674-nasa-chainmail-4x4-8x8-12x16-and-32x34 and I will try to upload a video

Another idea. You could make the chain mail different sizes. So where clothes would be worn, bigger chain mail and sequence over to smaller on the face hands, arms feet.

>>23722 That's great. I also agree with making this out of TPU. But unlike you, I look at this more as underskin. Something like this could hold sensors and the cables leading there.

On second look may be a model and not stl file.

>>23722 >Hexagonal flexible solids made by NASA. This is so cool. I bet it would look great on a robowaifu. IMO at the very least the basic idea itself should serve as a jumping-off point for a shell/skin-substrate. Interesting idea Grommet, thanks! :^)

This stuff looks so cool. Very robo-style https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3095799 I know it seems contradictory and it is but I like, for example, Gothic cathedrals, the Temples of Hera & Poseidon in Italy, (Look this up. Probably my favorite buildings or top ten), and I also like "some" modern Brutalist style buildings. I like robots that look real or that look like robots but the cheap looking silicon fake bots they have now mostly look like crap to me. I think the in between looks bad to me.

>>23734 when in doubt always use an anime girl

I ran across this link looking for micro-fiber thread. http://swatches.ultrasuede.us/swatches/index.php If you were going to sew up a waifu suit for the skin I bet this would be really good. It;s microfiber fake suede. Likely far better, stronger, more stain resistant and softer than real suede. And the link above is a place where you can order several swatches of different types to get a feel for what you want. I wish more manufacturers would do small samples. And if ANYONE, anyone at all can find a link to micro-fiber thread on spools please tell me where. I have searched and searched and searched and I get is blankets, clothes, everything you can think of made of microfiber but I can't seem to find spools of just the fiber like the big multi-thousand yard spools of thread they sell for sewing. The fiber should be about 1 denier or less. Search engines have declined in a really big manner. Many years ago you could search and get very narrow defined returns Now. Forget it. You search for clown shoes and get back returns for rocket ships. Sometimes there's no relation at all.

>>23739 >when in doubt always use an anime girl Good thinking peteblank! :^) >>24487 >Likely far better, stronger, more stain resistant and softer than real suede. Sounds excellent Grommet, thanks! >And if ANYONE, anyone at all can find a link to micro-fiber thread on spools please tell me where. I for one will be sure to if I stumble across such. Good luck Anon! :^)

I thought about doing casting for the skin but it might not be necessary. The skin might be easier than I thought.

>>24712 Then again if the waifu are to be done in bulk casting is still the better approach though.

>>24712 I think this approach may in fact serve us very well for a robowaifu's face, boobas, and vagoo. Good luck with your research! :^)

I was looking for the link on using optical fibers linked to camera chips for sensors (this is one of the greatest ideas in history). The link for using cameras and fiber for sensors is, https://hackaday.com/2019/08/30/fibergrid-an-inexpensive-optical-sensor-framework/ While looking for this I found a new link that really fits in well with the other that I had not seen. This one, https://hackaday.com/2011/10/21/building-optical-flex-sensors/ A little thought and you will see this guy has figured out a way to make very good touch/pressure sensors that could be waterproof, reliable, self contained and if you combine this with the first, cameras used to sense the values of light back from sensors, now you have a complete sensor package. You can use optical encoders fed by fiber(light) for motion and use this second idea for pressure, touch, sensing and with the first, cameras for sensing, you have the whole thing in one nice package. If the touch sensors are in a X-Y grid you have position sensing, which could be combined with the light attenuation to give touch pressure values with point locality. Since cameras these days have huge values you could have a very precise position location sensing. And the whole thing in a waifu could be self calibrating. So you plug all these fibers and/or sensors into a package. The waifu bends it's limbs in sequence under control while monitoring the feedback from the sensors. After it calibrated what joints go to which pixels on the camera it starts squeezing it's body parts and calibrates the amount of squeeze with pressure and calibrates which pixels and by how much they change. The whole done in a few minutes. Could even do so periodically to make sure calibration is correct with wear. Now the trick is to get away from fiber. Stringing together all these fibers is labor intensive. The second link shows a path to this. In it he has a hollow tube with a filler. What if you made a trough for one side of a skin section and on the other side a hill that fits into the trough? The outsides would be a dark rubber. So you flex it and the light hits the dark rubber and is absorbed as opposed to going straight through the thin film which is clear that you made the trough and hill out of. When I say film I'm saying you make this structure, like a big flexible nervous system out of a cast plastic. Possibly cast the clear interior then spay over, paint or cast the exterior dark surface. I suspect that there will be some trickery and art involved in making this film, trough and hill structure to get the maximum sensitivity without blocking the light all together. You would have to separate the joint bending light attenuation from the pressure/touch sensing light attenuation. I suppose you could bend, then pressure test, touch calibration. Since it knows it's bending joints and knows this value then any further attenuation of light would be assumed to be touch. Every since I heard about the camera fiber sensor idea I've been trying to think of a way to make this THE method of sensing for all facets of the robowaifu I think, "this is the way", though I have no doubt there are lots of niggling bugaboos that could cause trouble. But once you could get some small section worked out and function properly then it's only a matter of multiplying that small section onto the whole of the waifu. I could see the biggest problem is that a film of clear plastic is NOT a fiber optic so there's some possibility that you would not get enough return light for this to work properly. It is possible you may need to have two clear films. One in the center with one refractive index and one on the outside with a, I think, higher refractive index. This would bend the light towards the center but some value of bending would allow light to leak, attenuating it. On the other hand the distances are very small so light attenuation from distance may not matter and can be calibrated with the camera sensor even if the light attenuation is high.

>>30980 Thanks! Great content, Grommet. Cheers. :^)

Found an article that talks about different kinds of touch and it links to papers on artificial nociceptors (feel pain ) and an artificial nervous system to react to pain. I once read someone talk about how it is important for any robot to feel pain because if they cant they will be unable to empathize with human pain. https://www.nature.com/articles/s42256-022-00496-2 And here is a paper mentioning a magnetic field sensing method for pressure and i assume texture sensing https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/scirobotics.aat0429

This sounds not too but cost wise but it would only help doing hands for touch but ideally you want full body sensors. https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/soft-robot-hand-human-touch-17081346 https://doi.org/10.1002/admt.202200595

>>31029 Very interesting. The pressure bandwidth is especially impressive.

I think this might interest. It's a way to cut slits in flat materials and then when pulled they automatically form rounded shapes of all sorts. There's a video of them using copper and aluminium to form faces and all sorts of stuff. Some are compliant elastomer. I'm thinking this "might" come in handy to make pressure sensitive skin backing or more rugged forms for lighter skin. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrOjy-v5JgQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFkD45NUIzQ I think it's a difficult problem to provide touch sensors all over. It might be easier to form them on a stiffer board material then cut slits in it to have it conform to the body. This would then be covered with another skin material separating the task into units.

>>31040 I was looking at the papers it referenced and this is a good one with a bot of an overview. A Mini Review of Recent Advances in Optical Pressure Sensor http://jsstec.org/_PR/view/?aidx=35687&bidx=3202 It has a retarded view but can be saved as a pdf

Cross-Posting to this thread: >>31224

>>31225 and >>31103 Oh, wow. This is very impressive and promising. But it's liquid at room temperature. So, if a part would have little fissures it would spill out and there would be no conductivity in the sensor left. It has up and downside, it's certainly interesting to think about that. > Galinstan is a brand name for an alloy composed of gallium, indium, and tin which melts at −19 °C (−2 °F) and is thus liquid at room temperature.[4][5] In scientific literature, galinstan is also used to denote the eutectic alloy of gallium, indium, and tin, which melts at around +11 °C (52 °F).[5] The commercial product Galinstan is not a eutectic alloy, but a near eutectic alloy.[5] Additionally, it likely has added flux to improve flowability, to reduce melting temperature, and to reduce surface tension https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galinstan

>Foreskin for your skin? >It's more likely than you may think. https://arstechnica.com/science/2024/06/researchers-craft-smiling-robot-face-from-living-human-skin-cells/

>>31833 >Foreskin? >On my skin!? <It's more likely than you think!! >>CLICK HERE TO FIND OUT HOW<< Jej. :DD Yeah I saw that. Breddy spoopy-looking! Thanks for the link, Anon. Cheers. :^)

I've been thinking about skin for a while and come up with one, slightly, odd, idea to mass produce skin. I've always been amazed by that NASA flexible metal chain mail that can be 3D printed. https://www.wired.com/story/nasa-fabric-chain-mail-from-the-future/ As I was looking at the resolution of some of the 3D resin printers I realized the resolution on these things is super high. I think even the the lower level ones are high enough resolution that you could 3D print "molds" for these chain mail structures with reasonably fine detail. Look at the above link and then imagine putting down individual layers. You would have to have thin mask and then squeegee on the material in layers, but the printer could make structures small enough to be a fairly good skin. So here I have some data on printer minimum printing spec, >>31727 Even a cheap one can get XY Resolution (7680*4320) 0.0285mm So let's say to be safe we make a minimum line width of three times resolution we get 0.0855mm and if to get good definition on the little loops on the back side we make 50 divisions of this dimension we get 4.275mm across the whole of "skin" structure. I expect you could do better with some practice but 4mm is not bad. Ideally I think 1mm or 0.5mm would be perfect. The effect would be like little pores in the skin made of beads 1mm or less across. There are printers capable of doing these but at a higher cost than this cheap one. In fact you could do some maybe 5mm or so with a standard filament printer I think without too much trouble. So you print squares (actually hexagons or octagons would look better) of this in "negative" then make molds from those, which in turn makes the skin in layers. The molds would be slices. So there would be positive molds where plastic glue and matrix is deposited, and negative where you have some sort of washable materials. Could be crisco vegetable grease, PVA, possibly sugar, maybe wheat flour in water, anything that can be washed out. The large majority of these would be the same. So you mass produce the molds from your printed master and join them end to end. The only deviation would be you would need to have angles on the ends. So maybe you could print a lot of tiny squares with various angles. Join them to the sides of the larger pieces. Now you have a big ass flat mold that you can work with. When the skin is fully screen printed each layer at a time.Wash out the negative areas and dry. You now have a perfectly flexible, but strong and rigid, skin made of plastic. Easy to take care of and since you are laying these down in layers you could make the outer layer any color you want. In fact with a stencil over the outer layer you could have different colors that would in effect be like painting the outside (or screen printing t-shirts), but without all the labor. Other effects you could get by layering different colors. So white with a red underneath would get you a pink. Each layer changing the color. Take some experimenting but once you had it figured and the stencils made it would be the same for each one. So how to hold this on? Notice the inter-lapping rings. The end pieces could have open rings and you could thread a string through them and pull them together. And for cavities, notice how the rings are, remind you of something??? Velcro! So the lock part of Velcro could be used to "hook" onto the chain mail rings. Other ideas are to use contrast to fool the eye. So you make the body parts witrh alrger hhexagons and the hands, face or ecposed skin parts from smaller ones. The contrast would make the smaller skin parts look more like skin. I also thnk this sort of covering would lower normies negative uncanny valley response. it would clearly be a robot but all the important exposed skin parts would be soft due to the fineness of the flexible chain mail. I'm going to comment and see if I can get NoidoDev to see if the AI can simulate some of this chain mail shin. One more idea I really liked some of the yarn covered girls he made. I bet you could make the outer shell of the chain mail such that you could get some sort of yarnish or other textured material. The rough edges would likely cancel out (hide) the intersecting grid lines from our perspective. Making it look more organic, but still a robot.Could be really interesting. If you type in "3d printed chainmail" in a search engine and look at the images it brings up there's a ton of different ways to make these and you could even vary the technique over different body parts.

>>33010 Part of the problem is, that these would ideally be made out of soft plastics, though something flexible would still be better than a hard shell. It would also make more sense if we could use them to integrate the skin sensors. Otherwise, just using some textile (with silicone) makes more sense. I know, you don't like silicone, but except for opening the waifu up for repairs I prefer this route. If you want to use this underneath a textile skin it would be cutting down on some internal silicone rubber or some foam there, but it seems to be labor intensive.

>>33027 >Part of the problem is, that these would ideally be made out of soft plastics, though something flexible would still be better than a hard shell I beg to differ. I would make the skin hard. One idea I have is to use cellulose blown insulation for attics you can get at big box hardware stores and mix with tightbond type 3 plastic glue. Cotton fiber would also work but more expensive. This is very much like the car bodies they made in the Soviet Union in east Germany. "Duraplast". This stuff last forever. BUT below the flexible, but hard, skin you have some sort of cushion. Push ion the skin and it does not break, is smooth if your segments are small enough and sort of slick like real skin. But the flexible backing makes it feel like real skin, body. Thanks for the pictures and, they do look awful. I believe that the actual product will not have those black lines that make the divisions so prominent but, who knows. Not done yet. here's some pictures no face but they look ok to me. http://static.wixstatic.com/media/b0a32e_e0135700e1ee432683d5729494241a9e~mv2.png/v1/fill/w_630,h_390,al_c/b0a32e_e0135700e1ee432683d5729494241a9e~mv2.png https://squeakychimp.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/silver-metal-chain-mail-face-mask-neck-gaiter-headband-800x1000.jpg https://insertface.com/fb/1101/chainmail-dress-face-swap-1100786-rsxb4-fb.jpg https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse2.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP.bYNUpvPqkMb34IrWTtTwogAAAA%26pid%3DApi&f=1&ipt=3f528da1c45341cea38931ea9ff850fbfc50973d1594332c3ea1ca634dac3b9c&ipo=images

I was trying find examples and realized you made one that's very close to what I'm looking for. The blue cracked skin girl image-97 >>32855 http://bhlnasxdkbaoxf4gtpbhavref7l2j3bwooes77hqcacxztkindztzrad.onion/.media/c6e34bc1b8caa7e717464dff8cf05b5312d3120ead1701cba3ad92bc70e55d60.jpg Look at the lips up close. This is very much like old school footballs. Little small bumps which I think could be made with these high resolution resin printers. The advantage of this is you get a tough wear resistant outer shell that when pushed in is compliant. I think it would feel very nice. I think with the right material it could feel somewhat like a woman. When you rub on them the little hairs and the oils make touching them smooth. This would be close I think. And Women feel great. It would also be easy to embed paint or color and have it a part of the skin. Not easily removed. And yes I hate silicon. It feels icky, sticky, is impossible to keep clean. Now silicon "under" the skin for compliance, that's fine.

Just for fun I took a caliper, spread it to match my lips/mouth, horizontal, I then set the blue crack skin girls picture to match the size of my lips/mouth. Then I measured the bumps and came up with 1.5mm bumps. That's definitely doable. So you could get a smoothness of the blue cracked skin girls skin. I expect you could do better with very careful work. I don't think her face looks bad at all and if the robowaifu was white or pink the bumps would not show up near as much on the first place. And realistically the plates of the skin will not be these hard lines of larger models. You could make octagons but round the edges and have them smooth and slightly, very slightly, raised center surfaces like the blue girls skin.

As usual I'm thinking about this NASA chain mail for skin. I think the 1.5 mm spot size for each chain is readily doable and 1 mm might be done with a 3D extrusion printer. Maybe smaller using .05 mm nozzle(they have those but it's not stock bamboo labs). Not sure how well those would print. Here's a bamboo labs A-1 mini reference for their .2 mm printer nozzle. It looks great. I think you could easily get 1.5 mm with this. Here's a picture link comparing .2 mm and .4 mm nozzles. https://us.store.bambulab.com/collections/accessories/products/bambu-hotend-a1-series?variant=42008721686664 If you save the picture to your computer then open it in a viewer that you can zoom you can use a mm ruler and put it up to your screen, zoom to fit the distance they supply and get a realistic comparison. So maybe people think the chain mail idea is weird but I don't. A hard surface that flexes easily and has a flexible subsurface I think would be perfect and actually feel very lifelike. I started writing this comment to to explain and also to explain an idea I had for what I think the perfect material to make the harder outer skinsuit shell out of. Gel coat, like they use on sailboats. Great stuff. I think mixing a small amount of silica fume, a super, super fine silica powder, would make it very robust. Gel coat is basically fiberglass resin with pigment additives. You can make it most any color. It's very long lasting as it last 10 years or so on a sailboat in the ocean. One of the toughest conditions possible. The price for robowaifu skin quantities would be very cheap. The idea is to make a three or more part mold. The molds would lay down layers. The whole entire skin would be done at one time. Flat. So you 3D print a mold to make the mold. These 3D printed parts could be joined together to make the full skinsuit in one pass. Molds could be made of silicon, harder stuff, like gel coat, or a combination. You have a outer skin mold that you fill with Gel coat mix, then overlay another mold which you use a water soluble layer to make the spaces in the chainmail, another layer with gel coat, which will stick to the first gel coat layer, more washable layers, etc, until you have the whole thing in one big sheet. To join the skinsuit on the ends of the chain mail you have a slightly different loop connection. The regular ones intertwine with each other. These would not and would be offset a little towards the interior of the skin chainmail dot. To join you run a fishing line through the opposing chainmail skinsuit ends and pull together. Now you have a skinsuit tube. Somewhere you would have to have a spot to tie this line up. I wonder if you could do it in the opening like mouth, private parts, ears, etc??? At first I thought head or feet but if you put it inside intrusions it would be totally hidden. Could put it on the head and cover with wig also. I think kiwi's draped skins sort of made me see the possibilities of this sort of thing. The advantages of this are numerous. Real skin has little hairs and oils that allow you to glide over it. This would feel very similar and the flexibility would also be like skin if you had an underlay that felt pliable like fat cells under the skin. The durability would be FAR ABOVE most any other TPU or silicon and it would be super easy to keep clean. After all the material is designed for weathering outdoors in the ocean. Can't get any more brutal. Even after it ages using a mild buffing compound and a little elbow grease would have it back to looking like new condition.

>>33784 >chain mail for skin I don't think anyone here has tried to repudiate this, Grommet. Personally, I think it's a great idea. >Gel coat It certainly sounds like a great choice durability-wise. I wonder what toxicity/human-safety concerns might be involved, considering that many Anons will often be in long hours of direct contact with their robowaifu's shell?

>>33791 >toxicity/human-safety concerns The gel coat is polyester resin. The hardener and the resin are toxic but the process of adding the hardener to the resin combines them chemically and then all you have is polyester. Same as cloths and any of a vast number of things are made of. Most all boats are made of this stuff. Anything fiberglass is likely the same. The silica fume is also problematic as you shouldn't breath it, dust hazard, but combined in the resin it's fine. It wouldn't hurt to wash in water after it cures but other than that it should be fine. If it bothers you, you can also get epoxy based which food safe,(not that the other is not) after washing with water. Polyester resin is way cheaper and if bought as gel coat more color safe as it has ultraviolet protection. Of course epoxy can also have this but I'm not sure it's as good. Polyester has been tested on boats for multiple decades and it's cheap. I started writing this with polyester in mind, most common, but of course everything is complicated so there are others that could be contemplated so I list them in the name of "relative" completion. Another resin would be vinyl ester gelcoat. A step up from polyester. More expensive but not obscenely so and generally less than epoxy. It has better water repulsion than polyester and is often used as a first laminating layer for fiberglass in boats with polyester gel coat sprayed on the mold before laying up the fiberglass. A last one you could use titebond III. A waterproof, sorta, glue that's real cheap. It's actually water resistant in that you can't soak it for months on end in water. It will not work for that, but any serious drenching or submersion if allowed to dry it's fine. Cost is about 1/2 to 1/3 the others at $30 USD a gallon. Water clean up. Could be a great alternative but I wouldn't expect the same level of durability(not sure). However it could likely last longer than any average persons use of a robowaifu as people are always changing things and I expect they would change the skin or get a new waifu frequently. It also has the deficit that you would have to find your own pigment and figure out the amount to mix. Most regular boat gel coat can be ordered colored already. The others if taken care of I could see lasting close to and maybe more than a lifetime. It tough to talk about adhesives, glues, plastics because it's so damn broad. I'm interested in this from a boat perspective and tool/mold making so I've read a good deal about all sorts of glues(which are mostly plastics), and plastics. And yes I know this is weird but if you want to build stuff cheap that last, reading a lot of this is what's necessary to do so. I do believe this short comment covers a lot of the big ones that are easy to acquire. I'm leaving out the urea formaldehyde miraculous glues because they are harder to get but if you are serious would be great contenders. The idea of safety from chemical combination is the same idea as say, salt. Sodium will explode in water and will burn the hell out of you and chlorine is used in poison gas weapons but together...salt.

>>33796 OK, thanks for the thoughtful reply, Anon. I hope there are some kinds of lab reports regarding these materials, along these lines of inquiry. >Na >Cl <le ebin laws of Chemistry We'll do SCIENCE! to it! :D

>>33799 >I hope there are some kinds of lab reports Plenty. They've been around over fifty years. I have a 44 year old fiberglass boat and it's fine, sort of. I'm working on it, or supposed to be. I have the most heretical ideas about how to make killer sailboats.

>>33796 Polyester resin is very hard. Says 70-90D shore hardness. That's as hard as it gets. Ideally the skin should be somewhere in the A range cause if its too soft then it might stretch and break. Maybe A30. 3d printer tpu is a85-98 around. There is 60a ninja flex but that is too expensive and rare. But I'd be willing to settle for that. There are 60a tpe dolls but those are considered hard and less desirable. Silicon rubber is the best I can think of. Making the molds and getting right is more work initially but afterwards it might not be as bad.

>>33854 Thanks for that feedback, Anon. >Ninja Flex I'm actually considering trying that in a good printer. >Making the molds and getting right is more work initially but afterwards it might not be as bad. True. We actually have a Plastics thread : ( >>108 ), that would be a good place for discussing this topic in depth. This was one of our OG threads loaded with great information that -- unfortunately -- hasn't been fully-migrated yet, since I could never figure out how to automate posting here. :/

>>33854 >Polyester resin is very hard You're missing the over all idea. It being hard and durable is good, not bad. One-we, or I, want something inert and non toxic two- we, or I want, something that will not easily collect yucky stuff and is easy to wash off if it does. three- You confuse the hardness of the material with pliability and the flexibility of chain mail. Chain mail made of metal is hard, but not hard to the touch. If the links are small, they are very slinky, smooth and flexible as long as the "underlying" structure is pliable.

well my post got deleted. anyways. a silicone bucket git dropped while i was movibg to my new place. however the silicone i got from alibaba wasnt very good. i did manage to make an extra mask. im not sure if it the mask has holes because of the air bubbles that got in while it was curing. anyways i plan on being a little more budhet concious moving forward. instead of getting high grade silicone rubber ill use silicon vaulk from the hardware store and mix it with 1/5 portion silicon oil.

>>23722 Why not just print the skin in TPU? Any chainmail flexibility would need a soft underlayer anyway. That soft underlayer could be the "fat" of the robot, and the TPU its skin.

>>34582 >Why not just print the skin in TPU? Durability and TPU is a little sticky, yucky feeling and all sorts of stuff stick to it. It's great if it's lubed, for certain appendages, but who wants to hold a head to toe perpetually lubed waifu? TPU is hard to keep clean. A resin based chain mail like the NASA stuff printed in very small links, like 0.5 mm or less, would be smooth, durable, easily washable and stuff would not stick to it. I bet it would feel like skin. Rub a fiberglass boat that has been waxed. Very smooth, nice feel. Skin has a layer of oil on it that I think could be approximated, maybe. Since it's flexible it would not be hard like a boat.

>>34582 i started off printing tpu and it came out quiet hard. its a95 which is not soft. silicon caulk is softer and can be made softer with silicon oil. theres softer tpus which are 60a but again im being budget concious and 60a is not great either way.

>>34583 I don't know how precise and accurate resin printers are, but with FDM printers, making a 0.5 mm link is like trying to make a watercolor painting on a postage stamp by hand.

BTW one of the major, really major reasons I'm thinking about this is manufacturing ability, you pour resins in molds and cost. Making a mold for TPU I think would be more difficult but I may be wrong. I aos like that it;s long lasting and very easy to clean. Silicon. TPU, this stuff is a major dust, yuck collection system. I don't like the "surface" feel of it.

>>34586 for manufacturing youd use tpe with injection molds >>34585 ypu can get 0.1 mm nozzles for fdm the standard is 0.4 dont know what you mean by 0.05 mm link

>>34588 the only advantage resin printers habe is that theyre not porous and they bond better becayse of the melting with the shiny lasers. you get a resin printer youre limited to printing brittle resin and thats it. if you want to do robotics you should get an fdm printer.

>>34588 Even with a 0.1 mm nozzle, it would be difficult.

>>34590 sonething like this but with 0.5mm hexagons you mean?

>>34591 if anhexagon has a diameter of 5 mm then each side woukd be 2.5 mm. so a 2mm nozzle would be good enough.

>>34591 No, chainmail with 0.5 mm links >>34583

>>34592 divide that by 10. brainfart. >>34593 well then each side is 0.5 so 0.5 mm nozzle if it has to be exact or 0.1mm nozzle.the layer height is between 0.1 -0.5 mm regardless of the nozzle size.

I just received a ELEGOO Mars 4 Ultra today. The "stated" resolution is, XY RESOLUTION 18 µm (0.0007086614) in. (8520x4320) ten thousandth=0.0001 inch equals 2.54 micrometers ten thousands is high quality machine production level I believe] Z-AXIS ACCURACY 0.02 mm (.0007874016 in.) The print area is small but really no real 100% fail as pieces can be joined. (6.037795 in. x 3.061417 in x 6.496063 in ^3) I got it for $189.99 USD. Cheap for what it can do. Supposedly. I haven't heard super bad stuff about it. I only pulled the trigger because Turkey day sale and possible tariffs coming up. I wish, really wish, I could afford a Bamboo mini A1, I think, and others think., the very best small filament printer. They are $200 USD. If they're not lying, which they probably are, then 0.5mm is no problem. In fact even if they are lying it may be that you can get 0.25mm across with the right settings, resin and holding your mouth right while you wait for it to print. If each pixel is 18 µm or 0.018mm then you have 13.8 pixels across the top of a 0.25mm skin cell(the face of the chain). I "think" you could still have enough strength if the back connectors were smaller but don't know. At twice that, 0.5 mm, I think would be much easier and likely would be fine but I think 0.25mm would be ideal. Look at a ruler, 0.25mm across for a skin cell (I'm calling it that) or even 0.5mm is really small. I will find out eventually. I warn you I will be VERY slow about this. I already have stuff backed up to do. I bought for long term use as a way to make parts in molds. I expect it will take me forever to learn and use this software to do so but once I get it maybe it won't be too bad. Make shell molds, fairly accurately, then fill with composites to make parts. The molds can even be made in sections and joined together with 3D printed built in wedge fasteners, or so I imagine. I expect the whole thing to be very tricky but I also expect the promise to make anything or close to it is there. Think about using chopped glass and/or carbon fiber with resin/epoxy. We're talking super strong stuff. With Japanese, and European, wood joinery techniques you can join lots of small pieces into very large pieces. In fact I have despaired that modern manufacturing does not use these methods in joining things with wedges instead of screws. Screws suck. I also ordered a pound of milled glass fiber, (1/16 inch, I think, very small), and a quart of silica fume, (extremely small, manometer sized), to mix with the resin. Have coming a liter of water washable egeloo resin. Excellent videos to watch on composites are by a guy, Tech Ingredients. I knew a bunch of stuff he talked about but he laid it out in such an organized and quality way that it really makes you think about the possibilities. Here's two very good videos to search for, Easy Tricks Using Fiberglass Strengthening! This next one bears watching several times. It's very good and if you get what he is saying it opens lots of possibilities. Super Strong Epoxy with Diamonds and More!

>>34589 >if you want to do robotics you should get an fdm printer Your not understanding my focus and what I'm trying to do. I'm not bashing FDM printers, I actually like them much better. But I can only afford one right now and the highest resolution is the winner. I do NOT want to make parts with the resin, only MOLDS.

>>34595 Holy shit, that is amazing resolution.

>>34595 ii think ill just make an hexagon mesh thats flat and experiment with that. it can be cut a joined(melted with a soldering iron..

>>34591 I mean exactly like the link in these comments. >>33010 >>33784

>>34596 for molds theres air dry clay and silicon mold making liquid too.

>>34597 >Holy shit, that is amazing resolution Yes it is, 'm amazed, and I do expect something close to advertised because it's a LCD screen that is projected onto the build plate. So it should be somewhat close, I hope.

>>34598 >hexagon mesh thats flat and experiment with that I agree that is a much faster and easier method. And I also agree that what I'm trying might be a big fail but not totally as I'll still have the printer and have lots of stuff I want to do with it so... But "long term" If you could make skin molds so that you could squeegee on resin in layers then you could make the whole skin suit in few passes. One layer, resin, another, resin, etc. then you have the whole skin in one piece, with the exception is has one joint or two from bottom to top. I think it very likely that one or more sections of the molds you put down will have to be something removable. Like low melting point metal, or melted sugar or mold release, something you can wash out. You can get metal that melts in boiling water. It's expensive but can be used over and over. I really like the idea of using it. The sacrificial parts would be like a metal screen laid over the lower parts. Lay it down, more resin, maybe another layer of metal screen, more resin, let dry then heat it with a heat gun and the metal runs out. Or throw it in a pot of boiling water. In fact your mold could BE that low melting resin which you recreate in another mold for every time you make a waifu skinsuit. My thinking is that each section of the skin could be made of repeating unit molds joined together. So print mold for making the mold. Make copies of this mold for flatter areas, meaning most body areas. But for entrances, eyes, mouth etc., you would have to think hard and maybe vary the angle or bend of the molds. So those areas would need special molds but could be glued to the normal molds. Most of the body skin could be one repeating mold structure.Think skinning an animal. The skin is one big sheet. If you think that I do not have this all figured out, you would be right. I have some ideas. One is to make where the two sections of the skin join have links and then run a UHDPE (super strong)fishing line to pull them together. So you undo one line at the head or on the feet or wherever and then you can separate off the skin. Once you do that the under layers can be easily taken off. For the line you may need some sort of latch??? I don't know yet. Have to make something and see what it does. I don't think you can visualize this. Have to build it and see.

>>34600 >for molds theres .... all sorts of stuff once you have the body printed. Or, even better, you print the mold.

>>34602 im printing the mesh. one regular piece of tpu amd one mesh with hexagons that are 5 mm in diameter. theyre both 100% infill. ill post the results soonish on yputube shorts. the 5mm gap is still sonewhat visible though. the slicer was giving me issues when the diameter was 1mm and below.

>>34602 well 3-5mm you know the slicer ruler isnt perfect

>>34610 and here are the results https://youtube.com/shorts/pjZJNI_y2Xc?si=GfhXKkaoCyCk75sv not sure but i think the smaller the gaps the harder it will be. overall i dont think regular 95a tpu is viable.

>TPU meshing coming up again Perhaps you could benefit from learning from my failures? >>24665

>>34618 interesting. Caight me printing spheres... the slicer might complain about this shape though.

>>34621 the sphere half spere grid is not too bad but it breaks too easily. itd also have tiny holes. also disregard the 20 newtons i got it mixed up it is 10 newtons.

5 newtons of force are required to open the mouth 1 cm with sophiedevs design. this mesh could work i guess. the holes are just not nearly as aesthetic if proper ecoflex or some other platinum silicone rubber was used.

>>34629 still what im thinking is that the only part of the face that really needs to be stretchy is the mouth. hannah dev has not made his files publicly available. I might borrow his design because it seems to work well enough. i might go as far as making magnetic linear actuators as well. i might skip back and forth though because after the eyes are done i will... work on the legs and that is robotics sacred cow because thats where you introduce a control system. that is where a lot of roboticist dare not venture and thats whats going to set what im doing apart along with the robot spine. because without those two things you can not make a sex bot. i expect that will make a lot of people upset. so ill be hardly surprised.

Looking at 3D chain mail I found a video I had looked at before but maybe now I see it in a new light. It's Self-assembling material pops into 3D https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrOjy-v5JgQ Using slits cut into flat sheets, I think this is here on the site somewhere, but I can't remember where, but a repeat won't hurt to tie two ideas together. So when you cut, or print, these slots and pull on the material if done right the flat becomes a 3D structure and stays that way. I was thinking...what if you combined a printed NASA type chain mail "with" an underlying slit cut structure. So you print all these things out and the natural tension of the slits, and not slits, conforms the chain mail, attached to it, to be a part of the body. Gaming this I could see how form fitting skin would need far less "attachment" for it to stay in place. You might could also print in the attachments into another layer under the stilted one. Tying this all into a nice package together nicely.

Here's another, Why Machines That Bend Are Better https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97t7Xj_iBv0 This about compliant mechanisms. What's magic about this is structures are built that have no hinges but the way they are structured they can snap into one, or many, positions. Once snapped into position, depending on how you made it, it can stay there. What I'm trying to convey is that by the magic of 3D printing you can use all these forces to do away with a huge mass of fasteners, bolts connectors, large slabs of silicon (not cheap) and use design to make simple things with complicated reactions built into them. They want to conform, yet are flexible. This of course means lower cost. Though it will not be rasy I supect you could use these structures to do away with silicon mimicking fat over the muscles and connective tissue with a slightly rigid plastic in a sort of tensegrity way. I suspect you would lower cost a lot and lower weight by using bending moments instead of bulk material. I'm reasonably certain that you could make a $2,000 USD robowaifu with a good look and controllable muscles "but" I'm not nearly so certain you could get one that would do much. It could walk around but...follow directions, likely not. I think the cost to get that would be, well I don't know. I expect it would be high. A good motherboard, processor, memory, etc. could easily run for something with a bit of power $1,000 or WAY more for the high end. That will blow the budget. I suspect for $2,000 a good waifu would sell fast, in volume, but as you go up in price I think it would thin out fast. Since inflation has been so bad maybe you could stretch that to $3,000 USD but I think much higher would sell, but not as easy.

>>34657 >>34658 These are awesome Grommet, thanks! >I think this is here on the site somewhere, but I can't remember where Any chance you could try a Waifusearch for it, Anon? It would be helpful to know what you're talking about. >tensegrity, et al YES! We've been concerned with using this approach to simplify, improve, and reduce the costs of robowaifu designs for years. I think this is a great idea you're conveying here to use resilient and lightweight, underlying tensegrity forms as 'muscles', 'fat', &tc. Thanks for the good ideas, Anon. Please keep them coming! Cheers. :^)

>>34659 >tensegrity There was a guy on here that made a thread about using that for his waifubot, but he disappeared.

yeah even if it did work it would not look good not worth pursuing. Anyways making microscopic plastic structures is clearly not viable. Silicone caulk from the hardware store is like $4 for 1/3 a kg silicone oil $4 per kg That is cheap really cheap. Its just the process is making the skin with silicone is hard and tedious. Just say that instead of saying you can't spend $8.

>>34661 forgot to post pic

>>34661 >yeah even if it did work it would not look good not worth pursuing... We'll see. I've made it clear that, to me, silicon feels like shit, attracts all sorts of crap and is hard to keep clean. It tears really easy. And while silicon and latex from the hardware store is not super expensive, the first class stuff, stuff I would want, from mask-makers, Hollywood class stuff is expensive. It just is, but it's good stuff. What I've after may not work but...I think it will and I think the durability, cleanliness and the smooth skin like feel will make it far more attractive. I wonder if you could get some thing that could just walk, maybe follow you around, a few set moves but open source the software, could you get people to give $3,000 for it??? I think maybe I could make money at that price with a super weak processor BUT provide a cavity and a upgrade capability. I could not write the AI software. There is the possibility I could somehow get an AI to do it for me. I read this forum where a guy who has been programming for a long, long time and he talks about how he has improved his productivity with AI sometimes over 10,000 %, Yes 10,000%. He, first knows what he is doing, so he can set up the AI in terms very precise and the AI writes all the boilerplate code. Does all the database integration, ties in his interface with all this other code, gathers all the needed open source software to do any data conversions and writes all this stuff pout to his specs immediately. It's extraordinary. You can actually feel the joy in his writing. BUT he knows what he is doing with the code and can aim the AI in the right direction specifically. I don't. I "think" (likely a super overestimation of my capabilities)(make that major)(make that even more major) but, I think I could do all the code to move it around. Walk. If only write the code and have the thing wallow around and reward it when it does right. No doubt at all I could easily, very easily be wrong about that. @Chobitsu What you are looking for is conformal sheets-paper-materials. I found a paper and it can be used for further search terms. Strong conformable structure via tension activated kirigami https://www.nature.com/articles/s43246-023-00357-4

If you look at the paper you can see how slits make conformal structures. I believe, that there would be no blocks to making these conform to a waifu. Imagine these structures with stiff areas(the folded parts, maybe made of fiberglass sheets), the outer skin could be one, with some sort of latch or hook to the inner muscle. Separating, actually gluing it together, would be something like TPU or silicon, a proper place for it , inside. Some kind of TPU or other elastomer would likely be best. It needs to not tear easily. There's all sorts of urethanes that do this I believe. So you could pour them in molds. Then you have a structure that can be tuned for to be soft or firm depending on it's structure. I think the best way to sell these would be a pile of parts in a box with good instructions. I "think" that would cut off a lot of feminazi complaints, well not their complaints, those will be voracious, but their ability to do anything about it legally.

I forgot to point out the exact search terms to find that paper "slits in paper to make conformal"

the slicer is really picky and unless the dimensions are the dimemsions it wants it wont print the grid pattern. it also doesnt want to print a 1mm flat layer. but i tricked it by raising the honey come 1 mm and adding supports. i made a slit on the honeycomb pattern abd i did notice that does allow it to stretch more. it moving up and diwn might not be an issue one of the issues i see doing certain vowels like the letter "o" and im rewatching hannah devs video amd he didnt manage to make the letter o either. pic related is supposed to be o. im only focusing on this cause im out of gas($$$) until december the 11th or else id be getting the iron and working on the robot eye.

>>34667 no im afraid adding a mere 1mm layer makes it way more rigid. anyways its worth experimenting with silicone caulk and silicone cause the costs will add up for the entire body. chatgpt is decent at coding btw but worthless at stem. anyways assuming the body is 5*2*1 feet its volume is 10 feet^3 1 cubic foot is 29 liters. 290 liters *(270ml/1000ml)=78.3 silicone caulks but itd used a fraction of that unless it was filled so lets divide it by 5. lets say 16 silicone caulks. tbh here 270 ml of silucone caulk is like $2 so $32 def worth looking into...

>>34663 >>34665 >>34666 Thanks for the additional info, Grommet. >>34667 >>34668 Good luck with your work, peteblank.

>>34667 What slicer, nozzle size, and wall thickness are you using?

>>34684 creality slicer, 0.4 mm, 0.2 mm standard(thats the wall thickness one right) not saying im opposed to using regukar tpu if it works, thatd be conviniemt. I just see no reason it should work. Soecially after playing aroubd with the honeycomb pattern and all that. >>34683 ty

>>34685 That's weird, it should work. Maybe it's something with the file?

>>34668 >no im afraid adding a mere 1mm layer makes it way more rigid I'm not sure I understand exactly what you are doing(printing), so this might not fit, but, as a general rule try to make everything you print (after you get the shape you want)a "mold". Not the finished product. Why? Filament is weak unless you spend a fortune on picky hard to print stuff. Mold materials, as you stated, are cheap in comparison and the mold can be thin, with honey comb or slat supports on the outside to strengthen the mold. The outside supports could also act as print supports. The counter to this is, it's damn difficult to get the object into mold form for printing. I suspect, somewhere, there's software to make negatives of whatever you are printing. I haven't got to that point yet. I know there are negatives of basic shapes you can enter into another shape, like a erasing negative mold object brush if you can imagine that. If you could make the, let's say, face, then push it into a block as a negative mold brush...that block would be the mold. Once you print the mold you wax it or use some other mold release then you can experiment with all sorts of materials you pour, put, push into the mold. I'm willing to bet once you have this negative mold brush, or shell creation task thought out and the actions needed in software to do it then it would be fairly fast and routine to do this. Kiwi lite a neuron in my brain when he talked about this using meshes. He talked about how fast it as to make them and thin shells. You could do the same with this molds. Print fast, use less material and rapidly printing prototypes is the key to rapid advancement. A quick idea I found about NASA chain mail. Some people are printing these sideways. The faces of the chainmail are vertical, then stacking them side by side, with one side of the loops being on the floor. I could see how this could get you far better resolution and pack way more chainmail in the same space. Possibly you could print one layer, then have another over the first, and another, etc. This is if you could work out the supports so that they could be removed without screwing up the whole thing. One layer with vertical faces I know can be done. I looked at the specs for a bambu A1 Mini, FP, and it has a standard layer height of .02 mm. I expect that this means you could print a vertically faced chainmail at a fairly high resolution even with a filament printer. It doesn't have the x-y resolution listed in the main spec page. As long as this is accurate you can get "mold" resolutions far higher than the nozzle resolution because we are only printing surfaces.

>>34697 In my experience, standard PLA is pretty good for most applications. Sure, it isn't Terminator durable, but fortunately we're making domestic robots, not Terminators.

Has anybody considered incorporating keratin based materials as a skin? I understand that it is not exactly something a garage tech would have access to, but as our projects get larger and larger, eventually we'll be able to create synthetic skin to cover the droid. To me, having self healing or at the very least easily repairable skin is going to be a majorly important part of the marketability of these machines, especially if they are going to be used for things outside the confines of a bedroom. My idea would be to create some kind of TPU based substrate layer that contains bioactive compounds and amino acids. The body would then be dipped in a bath or sprayed with layer of fluid containing keratinocytes that would attach onto the TPU and form chemical bonds. This would then be cultured until the desired skin thickness is met and the keratinocytes would be killed via heat sterilization. This would give us a seamless skin along with a durability very similar to human collagen-keratin based skin. It would also feel way more realistic than any purely artiifcial solution. When the robot's skin is damaged, depending on the severity, if the TPU layer is still intact, a bandage containing keratinocytes could be applied along with a spay containing amino acids and other molecules needed for the keratinocytes to produce new skin.

>>34724 Bro's making a T-800 Jokes aside, that's an interesting idea. But I wonder how nail/hair based skin would feel. Maybe if some VERY ambitious people in the future are trying to make bio-androids, they can use that to make the nails and hair.

>>34724 Not sure how this would work. But it strikes me as interesting. Interesting idea, thanks. For what are such keratinocytes being used? Where could we get them? I crosslinked this in the cyborg thread >>2184 here >>34790 after looking into it. Since I don't think this will be possible without dabbling in biology, probably using something like "epidermal stem cells in the lower part of the epidermis". I'd guess we would need to grow these in some kind of bioreator?! These layers also only last 50 days and are then normally being shed, because the cells die automatically. They come into life in one way and transform till they die. If we would want to use them longer we would need some cream for that, to make the skin last way longer. I assume they would also need to be genetically altered to not go through the process where the become "corneocytes" and then die. Alternatively the bot could consume and distribute such cells every few days inside it's body underneath it's skin, Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keratinocyte