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R&D General NoidoDev ##eCt7e4 07/21/2023 (Fri) 15:25:47 No.24152

This is a thread to discuss smaller or general waifu building problems, solutions, proposals and questions that don't warrant a thread or touch on more than one topic. In a way this is a technical meta, minus news. Keep it technical. A lot of topics in the old thread here >>83 have a thread on their own by now. The main topics in the old thread with the link to the related dedicated threads are listed here - it was mostly about actuation at the beginning: Topics in the old OP: - liquid battery and cooling in one (flow batteries) >>5080 - artificial muscles (related to actuators >>12810) - high level and low level intelligence emulation (AI) (related to AI >>77 >>22 >>250 >>27 >>201) - wear and maintenance, including repairs - sanitation >>1627 (related to actuators >>12810) > cheap hydraulic and pneumatic muscles > woven sleeves out of strong nylon fishing line > exhaust excess heat by breathing and panting (related to thermal management >>234) >>1635 (related to energy systems >>5080) > sitting in her 'recharging chair' > swapable battery packs, air tanks > sleeve and other 'fabric' weaving TOOLS >>1691 -TOOLS- > automatic winding >>1698 -TOOLS- > looming mechanism >>1711 (related to actuators >>12810) > belt to transfer the mechanical energy to joints >>1715 (related to actuators >>12810) > not uncommon to use wires >>1716 (related to actuators >>12810) > double-end style towing sock cables (for hydraulics/pneumatics) >>1716 (related to actuators >>12810) > synchromesh drive systems >>1757 (related to actuators >>12810) > wires that themselves contract when heated >>1758 (related to actuators >>12810) > air muscles ... using an origami folding approach >>1779 (related to skin >>242) > self healing stretchable electronic skin >>1792 (related to actuators >>12810) > cable driven design >>1793 > klann linkages >>1799 > Jansen's Linkage >>1879 > software for waifu mechanical development >>1993 > hands (related to hand development >>4577) >>2032 >>2048 > decentralized computing of motion >>2377 (related to AI >>77 >>22 >>250 >>27 >>201) > AI and memory related, fuzzy NAND >>2670 --LIQUID-- > algae living in the internal water tanks >>2754 > copper for internal tanks >>2756 (related to vagoo / punani >>419) > slime onahole >>3182 (related to AI >>77 >>22 >>250 >>27 >>201) > combines MuZero, the Intrinsic Curiosity Module, Go-Explore, Hindsight Experience Replay and Divide-and-Conquer MCTS > pretty tough AI questions to solve >>3223 (related to AI >>77 >>22 >>250 >>27 >>201) > generally AI related thread >>3240 (related to AI >>77 >>22 >>250 >>27 >>201) > Flowtron ... autoregressive flow-based generative network for textto-speech synthesis >>3249 (related to AI >>77 >>22 >>250 >>27 >>201) > Tacotron, transformers >>3930 > intellectual humility >>4827 > most common methods to glue (3d printed) plastics together >>4831 > micro RC car, assembly of small stuff >>4861 > 90 facts about the human body >>5038 > DIY and inventors thread in the dollforum >>5448 > 3D printers to produce tensegrity structures >>5457 > silicone ball jointed doll ... held together by wire or string. >>5457 (related to skin >>242) > silicone skin covering the body with two layers of thin plastic in between ... skin feels like actual skin moving around >>5479 > Polyurethane foam to add plastic to the outside >>5487 > OpenLOCK >>5674 (related to actuators >>12810) > free spring calculator >>5928 (related to vision >>97) > lidar sensors for less than $100 >>5942 (related to organisation >>4143) > summarize papers and abstracts ... research sandbox >>5944 (related to AI >>77 >>22 >>250 >>27 >>201) > AI simulators >>6420 (related to energy systems >>5080) > alternative energy sources >>6503 (related to actuators >>12810) > compressor-free McKibben muscle using high-pressure electrolysis > hydrogen gas muscle >>6578 (related to AI >>77 >>22 >>250 >>27 >>201) > 'understanding'/real world context of the concept itself > quick mental images , AI, NLP >>6587 (related to AI >>77 >>22 >>250 >>27 >>201) > learning from artificial imagination > world models >>6845 > direct ethanol fuel cells >>6845 (related to AI >>77 >>22 >>250 >>27 >>201) > graph databases >>8311 (related to skin >>242) > fabric skin without silicone rubber > Mylar coated with aluminum > muscles should be fabric and a pliant closed cell foam (>>12810) > touch sensitive foam through carbon black and pressure changing resistance >>8312 (related to vagoo / punani >>419) > private parts could be like a pair of shorts with internal pockets for private parts. >>8314 >>8328 >>8361 (related to skin >>242) > Lycra, spandex, and elastane > full body suit >>8364 (related to actuators >>12810) > which bearing should be used in printed drives or in joints >>8369 > bearing types ....

Grommet 07/25/2023 (Tue) 06:14:45 No.24243

I printed this comment in the wrong place, Oops, but it belongs here so I'll repeat it. You could use a cheap ESP32 CAM Camera Module Kit and monitor fiber. Do them in a sort of X'Y' grid and then you have what part of a finger, or any other appendage, and how far up. You could use this for position sensors also. Have a rotating bump or wheel press on an array of fibers. You could have 10-bit resolution with 10 fibers that are pressed by bumps or wheels that press on the fibers as the actuator rotates or moves. Just like pressure changes the fiber light when used for pressure sensors. In fact this may be even easier and cheaper than making gray code wheels. So with a little work you could have every single touch sensor and position sensor in one $10 camera. Some ideas are so good they are just...stupendous and this is one. The guy that thought of this was really doing some top notch thinking.

Grommet 07/25/2023 (Tue) 10:50:22 No.24245

>>24235 I was overenthusiastic about this. Great for position sensors, still very good, but not for pressure or touch sensors. I think I got carried away because it solved SO many problems that I became caught up in wishful thinking. Another reason I think the pressure part worked was I have actually heard of this and thought he had found some simple way to do it. He started out stating that he felt he could which I missed and read that he had. Sigh. The idea still has merit but it's not solved.

Grommet 07/25/2023 (Tue) 13:11:44 No.24246

Maybe all is not lost. Maybe this guy could not make fiber pressure sensors work but others are sure working on it. Abstract Low Cost Plastic Optical Fiber Pressure Sensor Embedded in Mattress for Vital Signal Monitoring https://www.mdpi.com/1424-8220/17/12/2900

Grommet 07/25/2023 (Tue) 13:19:34 No.24247

>>24246 Reading further,"...The POFs have been sensitized to pressure, cutting part of the jacket, the cladding and the core (Figure 1a). A fiber holder with a hemicylindrical groove with the same diameter of the fiber was used together with a razor blade to obtain cuts with approximately the same depth. As described in Figure 1b, any applied pressure on the cut point changes the light intensity at the fiber end..." So this can be done and without too much difficulty. The paper.

Grommet 07/26/2023 (Wed) 12:39:41 No.24257

Found another paper. A much better one. Seems there's not much commercial fiber that has the right properties. These guys found a polymer, "Geniomer 200 (Wacker AG, Germany), a polysiloxane-urea-copolymer with a polysiloxane content of > 90%. The polymer was used as supplied with no further treatment. The melt flow index (MFI) has measured 17.78 ± 0.52 g/10min (n = 3) at 1 kg and 170°C (Wacker datasheet: 170°C, 2.16 kg, 110-150 g/10min), and a melting temperature (Tm) of 171.31..." So tentatively it looks very easy to 3D print with normal 3D printers after making into filament. They then dipped in a refractive index polymer, "...A low refractive index coating material (THV 220, n = 1.36; Dyneon, Germany) was later applied by dip coating the fibers in 5 wt% acetone solution (23°C). The coating thickness was calculated to 16 ± 3 µm by gravimetric analysis (n = 3). After the dip coating with THV polymer they lost their sticky behavior...." The response in these, if they are not lying, is very good. 0-40 Newtons pressure. So fiber optic sensors not outmore complicated than just weaving a few off of amazon. It may well be that you could still use some cheap amazon fibers but...likely too stiff.

Chobitsu 07/26/2023 (Wed) 16:00:05 No.24259

>>24242 Thanks for the instruction Grommet, that's helpful! :^) >>24243 >>24245 >>24246 >>24247 >>24257 Fiber has a metric boatload of advantages within a robowaifu. I'm sure they will play many important roles for us in the future, including involvement with sensors.

fiber sensors, light based sensors NoidoDev ##eCt7e4 07/26/2023 (Wed) 16:13:03 No.24261

>>24246 >but others are sure working on it. Yeah, it would be surprise if no one would. It's too obvious of a good idea. In theory it should be sufficient to have a little ball joint, where the ball can move in different directions, holding a fiber. Then find a way to add changing light into the fiber. Maybe the ball could be somewhat transparent, or some parts transparent others not. Then LEDs with different colors would shine onto it. Bending the fiber makes the ball move into another angle, changing the light spectrum. >>24247 >>24257 Thanks, I'll look deeper into it when I'm at a point actually needing something like this.

a very cool way to 'clothe' our robowaifus Chobitsu 07/26/2023 (Wed) 17:28:13 No.24263

Imagine an entire robowaifu shell of this stuff, under a soft, transparent skin.

peteblank 07/26/2023 (Wed) 23:51:33 No.24267

>>24227 I'm going by what bard says and it says that TPE is 20% softer than TPU and cheaper. I'm going with TPE because it seems like the path of least resistance to me.

Kiwi 07/27/2023 (Thu) 00:38:07 No.24268

>>24227 You are correct. TPU (thermoplastic polyurethane) is indeed a TPE (thermoplastic elastomer) a type of copolymer which mixes a plastic and rubber to achieve thermoplasticity and a rubbers softness/malleability. What really matters is the shore hardness of the filament. Picrel is a chart that can be helpful for getting the gist. Note how there's multiple scales, it's important to note the letter when checking the scale. I personally use 98A TPU which feels somwhere between skin and leather in terms of flexibility and apparent softness.

Grommet 07/27/2023 (Thu) 05:46:40 No.24276

>>24268 >Shore-Hardness-Chart-01 Great chart, thanks.Very useful

peteblank 07/28/2023 (Fri) 00:07:11 No.24287

I think the elephant in the room is the legs. We'd want to be able to spread them for the sexy time too. How to go about this.

Chobitsu 07/28/2023 (Fri) 02:44:30 No.24293

>>24287 I think you need look no further than the ball-and-socket design that God created for the hip joint. Artists like Sukabu do a rather good job of rendering this basic approach into a robowaifu-centric set of studies.

peteblank 07/28/2023 (Fri) 12:32:48 No.24297

I can't get my 3d printer to work and I've been thinking. Wouldn't slush casting be better anyways? Although 3d printing could aid slush casting by making a 3d printed mold though.

Chobitsu 07/28/2023 (Fri) 13:41:40 No.24298

>>24297 >Although 3d printing could aid slush casting by making a 3d printed mold though. I think several anons would probably agree with you on this point Anon, good thinking!

peteblank 07/28/2023 (Fri) 17:03:49 No.24300

>>24293 This thing is never going to get solved unless you guys get on krita or ms paint. Here is my attempt.

Kiwi 07/29/2023 (Sat) 02:40:37 No.24302

>>24300 Did you use one of those shuffling robots that pretend to walk on ratcheting wheels as inspiration? >Joints I'm still going to be using Revoltech inspired joint system. Currently experiencing with methods of implementation.

Kiwi 07/29/2023 (Sat) 03:00:22 No.24303

>>24298 For everyone who wants to get into casting, I highly recommend Smooth-On silicone to start out with. This channel is great for beginners, many tutorials that are clearly articulated. Always remember to use a release agent too. https://m.youtube.com/@RobertTolone

peteblank 07/29/2023 (Sat) 03:57:24 No.24304

>>24302 what about the top though? What makes the sphere at the top move?

Kiwi 07/29/2023 (Sat) 05:43:38 No.24306

>>24304 An actuator of course. It's a sphere with two attachment points that could be rotated. I would recommend looking into articulated figures and robots walking on video sites. This website is a good resource for researching robotic motion in general. http://www.robot-welding.com/robots.htm

NoidoDev ##eCt7e4 07/29/2023 (Sat) 18:22:55 No.24308

>>24287 Related (walking): >>243 I shared an partial sketch of my idea about this here: >>23962 That said, I didn't think rigorous enough about every situation. Which is really something we should be doing in regards to every movement of the body. Technically the problem is close to back-driveability. A outside force to the legs should make them move, but they also need to function with actuators. If it's just about security, as in getting out of the way, then some spring or rubber string mechanism that can overwrite the current state would be good enough. It would snap back after the outside force is gone. I don't know if my idea is going to work, but I want to use strings, springs, keep the servos back-driveable and also adjust automatically, if the situation indicates that the new position of the legs is meant to be the new state. General remark: Female walking is closer to how models walk, and we at least want that as an option. The legs do not just move forward from the side of the body. I also plan to take the hip moving while walking into account.

peteblank 07/29/2023 (Sat) 23:38:53 No.24309

>>24300 While i drew that quickly I think it'd fit the design pretty well. The vertical gear with two side gear arrangment is called a bevel gear train. Each side would be offset by 180 degrees, so while one side is up the other one is down. The wheels could server for the robot to turn to different angles. So the waifu rotates say 45 degrees with the wheels and then walks without the wheels. A regular dc motor with high torque could be used for this. I'm not sure but I think regular dc motors are cheap than stepper or servo motors and never mind actuators. Slap in a couple of pneumatic cylinders to spread the legs and you got something that's good enough. The pneumatic cylinders would be used to limit the spreading and would not need to be powered by anything.

Chobitsu 07/30/2023 (Sun) 01:25:23 No.24313

>>24300 >>24309 Thanks for the work Anon. Good luck. >>24302 >>24306 Neat. Please provide more Revoltech information if you will Anon. >>24303 > I highly recommend Smooth-On silicone to start out with. This. It's quite expensive, but I've seen it demo'd with flawless results multiple times. >>24308 >Female walking is closer to how models walk, and we at least want that as an option. The legs do not just move forward from the side of the body. I also plan to take the hip moving while walking into account. Great, biomemetic thinking NoidoDev. But this is a rather difficult set of kinematics problems for us to solve, heh. :^)

NoidoDev ##eCt7e4 07/30/2023 (Sun) 02:37:54 No.24316

>>24309 >gear arrangment is called a bevel gear train Reminds me of this: https://youtu.be/W6xzBVVuml8 - I thought about finding a way to make this work without drilling into metal. >regular dc motor Might be a good idea if you don't plan to have an enclosure which you can't remove later. I think dc motors have coals which will need to be replaced after a while. >The pneumatic cylinders would be used to limit the spreading and would not need to be powered by anything. Excellent idea. We should also keep HRP-4 approach as option in mind (picrel 3).

Robowaifu Technician 07/30/2023 (Sun) 03:32:10 No.24319

>>24316 I found this toy laying around the house. I've opened it before to put a resistor in it to make it quieter. It also comes with a motor. It might be good enough to make a test for the legs on a small scale. I'll also be going to the hardware store tomorrow so I might be able to get some other stuff as well.

peteblank 07/30/2023 (Sun) 03:34:04 No.24320

>>24319 Oh forgot name handle

Grommet 07/31/2023 (Mon) 10:15:25 No.24349

>>24297 >3d printing could aid slush casting by making a 3d printed mold That's definitely my way of thinking also.

NoidoDev ##eCt7e4 08/21/2023 (Mon) 06:00:44 No.24749

Stringing piece, 3D printed: https://youtube.com/shorts/EzQtoJlunwM

NoidoDev ##eCt7e4 08/21/2023 (Mon) 06:07:58 No.24750

Hannah from @DaveMakes got additional emotions to change the skin around her eye cavity when she moves her eyes up and down. Never seen that anywhere before: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/lbZZIK33T1I

Chobitsu 08/21/2023 (Mon) 09:24:32 No.24755

>>24749 Very pretty. I'd expect that Kiwi and others can utilize similar approaches for winding tensegrity suspensions, as well. :^) >>24750 He's made lots of progress over the year or so. Thanks for the update, Anon! Cheers. :^)

NoidoDev ##eCt7e4 08/27/2023 (Sun) 00:45:23 No.24938

>What's the difference between a CPU and GPU? And what the heck is a TPU, DPU, or QPU? Learn the how computers actually compute things in this quick lesson. https://youtu.be/r5NQecwZs1A >Curious exactly what happens when you run a program on your computer? Read this article to learn how multiprocessing works, what system calls really are, how computers manage memory with hardware interrupts, and how Linux loads executables: cpu.land

Kiwi 08/27/2023 (Sun) 18:15:04 No.24950

>>24749 Does anyone know of a technique to automatically generate those strings? It should be possible, Cura does similar with infill patterns but, none that I know of can replicate this. If I could edit the "lines" infill pattern to have layer between, it would be close enough, Would be very useful for print in place tensegrity.

NoidoDev ##eCt7e4 08/27/2023 (Sun) 19:26:16 No.24952

>>24950 Didn't he explain it in the video or in the comments?

Chobitsu 08/27/2023 (Sun) 20:52:03 No.24959

>>24950 >Would be very useful for print in place tensegrity. Ahh, the old 'necessity is the mother of invention' driving-force of nature, ehh? :^) Very innovative thinking Anon. Godspeed.

NoidoDev ##eCt7e4 08/28/2023 (Mon) 14:50:37 No.24994

>>24952 I looked, it actually isn't. I could try in OpenScad... <the rabbit hole teases you, some call it they Abyss>

NoidoDev ##eCt7e4 08/28/2023 (Mon) 15:23:06 No.24997

>>24749 and >>24994 Related: >>24996

Robowaifu Technician 09/20/2023 (Wed) 04:37:31 No.25400

Wraith Madoka's true form has a fascinating design that looks similar to a tensegrity structure. This concept could be modified into a cute and functional robot

Kiwi 10/06/2023 (Fri) 23:48:54 No.25824

Four bar mechanisms can implement almost any desired motion in very simple and elegant designs. Hackaday has an insightful starter. https://hackaday.com/2017/03/29/marvelous-mechanisms-the-ubiquitous-four-bar-linkage/ Wiki; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four-bar_linkage Valuable deep dive; https://dynref.engr.illinois.edu/aml.html Here's a video; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvYNqj4awM8

peteblank 10/11/2023 (Wed) 11:37:36 No.25915

Are there any resources for robot spines?

NoidoDev ##pTGTWW 10/11/2023 (Wed) 15:31:04 No.25918

>>25915 >>200

Grommet 10/11/2023 (Wed) 18:48:01 No.25928

>>25824 Kiwi's link was very good and has a lot of links that link from it that are very comprehensive. One I found might be useful if not too academic.(most of it is not directly related to robowaifus but some good data points are in it relating to power needed, etc.) Animal as a Machine and a Prime Motor and the Laws of Energetics https://ecommons.cornell.edu/items/51558415-c151-49a3-8a0f-3dcc27a1e2e9 Large set of books on kinematics at the same site https://ecommons.cornell.edu/collections/78104a5e-7f84-41ea-929a-1fc694f75ba2

NoidoDev ##pTGTWW 11/09/2023 (Thu) 19:44:15 No.26295

Hypoid vs. Worm Gears: A More Cost Effective Right-Angle Reducer: https://www.orientalmotor.com/ac-motors-gear-motors/technology/hypoid-vs-worm-gears.html

NoidoDev ##pTGTWW 11/10/2023 (Fri) 06:23:27 No.26299

There are some STEMMA-QT connectors which make connecting a Raspi to I2P easier, there are even hubs for this. https://www.youtu.be/-d0rOHjntAo >Yes you CAN install STEMMA-QT / qwiic connectors on a Raspberry Pi! Several popular alternatives are shown, including hats, a shim, and directly wiring a port to the board. Skip breadboarding for I2C components, and build faster, more fool-proof projects.

Kiwi 11/11/2023 (Sat) 18:46:59 No.26330

Does she need a bellybutton? Making a more feminine design for clothing.

Chobitsu 11/11/2023 (Sat) 18:55:20 No.26331

>>26330 Looking good Kiwi! No, I wouldn't think she particularly needs a bellybutton (particularly during this early prototype phase). I suggest doing things that simplify printing/assembly of the mesh flats at this stage tbh. BTW, it strikes me that her Lats are a bit too masculine, but admittedly it's hard to tell w/o a 360' turntable animation. Keep up the good work, Anon! :^) >=== -sp edit

Edited last time by Chobitsu on 11/11/2023 (Sat) 18:56:01.

NoidoDev ##pTGTWW 11/11/2023 (Sat) 19:48:06 No.26332

>>26330 A question which comes to my mind is: Why are you still working on a human-like body design since now we know that Make Human works for that?

Kiwi 11/11/2023 (Sat) 21:05:01 No.26337

>>26331 I feel the same way, I favor a very feminine and petite frame. I'll try to make her lats softer. Optimizing for print-ability while having her able to wear clothes is a delicate balancing act. >>26332 I prefer a more stylized body than I can get from MakeHuman. I fully support anyone using it. I agree that most should use it instead of investing time to make their own mesh. I'm just a weirdo who needs things just right.

Chobitsu 11/11/2023 (Sat) 21:44:39 No.26340

>>26337 >I'll try to make her lats softer. Good thinking IMO. Also, now that I can see her backside, again, I think her gluteus maximus are too masculine. I'd suggest giving her more of a rump. >I'm just a weirdo who needs things just right. Haha. Autism isn't being weird Kiwi. It just shows you have a real vision you're following! Cheers. :^)

Kiwi 11/12/2023 (Sun) 01:15:09 No.26350

>>26340 Smoothed things out. Her new lats are the same size, just much rounder. It should look better while still being appropriate for clothes. Made her shoulders smaller to be slightly girlier. Smoothed her booty over, same size, just rounder. More rump like :^) You can see the original and new as halves of the mesh. Added a slight bellybutton. I remembered I made a promise, long ago. Because raisins (I also have a thing for navels :^) (Her arms and legs are random kitbashed addons for the sake anatomy.)

Chobitsu 11/13/2023 (Mon) 03:32:42 No.26371

>>26350 >More rump like :^) Heh. Looking forward to seeing the final outcome, Kiwi. :^)

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