/robowaifu/ - DIY Robot Wives

Advancing robotics to a point where anime catgrill meidos in tiny miniskirts are a reality.

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R&D General NoidoDev ##eCt7e4 07/21/2023 (Fri) 15:25:47 No.24152
This is a thread to discuss smaller or general waifu building problems, solutions, proposals and questions that don't warrant a thread or touch on more than one topic. In a way this is a technical meta, minus news. Keep it technical. A lot of topics in the old thread here >>83 have a thread on their own by now. The main topics in the old thread with the link to the related dedicated threads are listed here - it was mostly about actuation at the beginning: Topics in the old OP: - liquid battery and cooling in one (flow batteries) >>5080 - artificial muscles (related to actuators >>12810) - high level and low level intelligence emulation (AI) (related to AI >>77 >>22 >>250 >>27 >>201) - wear and maintenance, including repairs - sanitation >>1627 (related to actuators >>12810) > cheap hydraulic and pneumatic muscles > woven sleeves out of strong nylon fishing line > exhaust excess heat by breathing and panting (related to thermal management >>234) >>1635 (related to energy systems >>5080) > sitting in her 'recharging chair' > swapable battery packs, air tanks > sleeve and other 'fabric' weaving TOOLS >>1691 -TOOLS- > automatic winding >>1698 -TOOLS- > looming mechanism >>1711 (related to actuators >>12810) > belt to transfer the mechanical energy to joints >>1715 (related to actuators >>12810) > not uncommon to use wires >>1716 (related to actuators >>12810) > double-end style towing sock cables (for hydraulics/pneumatics) >>1716 (related to actuators >>12810) > synchromesh drive systems >>1757 (related to actuators >>12810) > wires that themselves contract when heated >>1758 (related to actuators >>12810) > air muscles ... using an origami folding approach >>1779 (related to skin >>242) > self healing stretchable electronic skin >>1792 (related to actuators >>12810) > cable driven design >>1793 > klann linkages >>1799 > Jansen's Linkage >>1879 > software for waifu mechanical development >>1993 > hands (related to hand development >>4577) >>2032 >>2048 > decentralized computing of motion >>2377 (related to AI >>77 >>22 >>250 >>27 >>201) > AI and memory related, fuzzy NAND >>2670 --LIQUID-- > algae living in the internal water tanks >>2754 > copper for internal tanks >>2756 (related to vagoo / punani >>419) > slime onahole >>3182 (related to AI >>77 >>22 >>250 >>27 >>201) > combines MuZero, the Intrinsic Curiosity Module, Go-Explore, Hindsight Experience Replay and Divide-and-Conquer MCTS > pretty tough AI questions to solve >>3223 (related to AI >>77 >>22 >>250 >>27 >>201) > generally AI related thread >>3240 (related to AI >>77 >>22 >>250 >>27 >>201) > Flowtron ... autoregressive flow-based generative network for textto-speech synthesis >>3249 (related to AI >>77 >>22 >>250 >>27 >>201) > Tacotron, transformers >>3930 > intellectual humility >>4827 > most common methods to glue (3d printed) plastics together >>4831 > micro RC car, assembly of small stuff >>4861 > 90 facts about the human body >>5038 > DIY and inventors thread in the dollforum >>5448 > 3D printers to produce tensegrity structures >>5457 > silicone ball jointed doll ... held together by wire or string. >>5457 (related to skin >>242) > silicone skin covering the body with two layers of thin plastic in between ... skin feels like actual skin moving around >>5479 > Polyurethane foam to add plastic to the outside >>5487 > OpenLOCK >>5674 (related to actuators >>12810) > free spring calculator >>5928 (related to vision >>97) > lidar sensors for less than $100 >>5942 (related to organisation >>4143) > summarize papers and abstracts ... research sandbox >>5944 (related to AI >>77 >>22 >>250 >>27 >>201) > AI simulators >>6420 (related to energy systems >>5080) > alternative energy sources >>6503 (related to actuators >>12810) > compressor-free McKibben muscle using high-pressure electrolysis > hydrogen gas muscle >>6578 (related to AI >>77 >>22 >>250 >>27 >>201) > 'understanding'/real world context of the concept itself > quick mental images , AI, NLP >>6587 (related to AI >>77 >>22 >>250 >>27 >>201) > learning from artificial imagination > world models >>6845 > direct ethanol fuel cells >>6845 (related to AI >>77 >>22 >>250 >>27 >>201) > graph databases >>8311 (related to skin >>242) > fabric skin without silicone rubber > Mylar coated with aluminum > muscles should be fabric and a pliant closed cell foam (>>12810) > touch sensitive foam through carbon black and pressure changing resistance >>8312 (related to vagoo / punani >>419) > private parts could be like a pair of shorts with internal pockets for private parts. >>8314 >>8328 >>8361 (related to skin >>242) > Lycra, spandex, and elastane > full body suit >>8364 (related to actuators >>12810) > which bearing should be used in printed drives or in joints >>8369 > bearing types ....
>>31618 >Gearing down a 180kg servo kek
>>31623 That might make some sense in a home-healthcare/medical-institution context Anon?
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>>31623 It actually makes some sense. Consider that it's to actuate her shoulder. If her arm is 50cm, made of PLA reinforced silicone, with silicone skin, her arm likely will have a mass of a a kilo. 180cm.kg servos would max out at 3.6kg of load. Her arm would eat the .6kg of it. the 3kg for her to hold something. This is the breaking point though. Her servos will break right fast if pushed to its limit. In reality, she'd have to only lift 1kg objects to have the servo last. Gearing down with 3D printed plastic is indeed silly. There's no way they could handle 180kg.cm of torque. The teeth will sheer off. The ASME MR series are the most impressive servos in terms of torque to cost. Note, make sure you're getting the magnetic encoder variant, they are surprisingly accurate. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GwRxrp4nzDA
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2.5D robotics could be the answer to our problems. Make them light by making them almost completely flat. This way they can look like 2D waifus and still move around with us. They'd just look a tad wonky from off angles. I think we only really need her to look good from front and behind to be good enough. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqOv69P3qiQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOXUDDPeYF0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-mjs-2UNps
>>31835 >2.5D robotics I think this fits into this thread: >>271
>>31848 Not inherently because you could easily use something like plywood or plastic sheets to make them less delicate and last longer as result so it would no longer fall under papercraft in such cases.
>>31860 >2.5D robotics True, it doesn't always fit into the papercraft topic. Maybe there needs to be a thread on it's own at some point, if there's enough to post about it.
I like this robot's eyebrows. I'm trying to figure out how they made the corners move. Just regular servos? And, I wonder why they made the corners go back that far, when shorter eyebrows would look more natural.
>>31835 >>31848 >>31860 >>31862 Glad to see this topic being brought back up here Anons. It was a good idea years ago, and it's still a good one today! Cheers. :^) >>31917 My general impression from his videos is that there are two simple servos per eyebrow. Both located at the furrow of the brow; one controlling the rotation, one controlling the vertical 'sliding'? (cf. : >>15287) . The other end(s) seems simply to be fixed in place. I hope you'll give it a shot Anon, and let us here know about your results. Cheers. :^) >=== -minor edit
Edited last time by Chobitsu on 07/01/2024 (Mon) 09:01:12.
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Full color image transfer to the base of 3D prints. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eElO5aso8kY
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>Wires and buses for sensors: Buses (I2C, CAN, DMX512) and multiplexing in the SPUD thread: >>32583 Light buses, light based sensors and related hardware: >>32874 >>32896 I meant the light could come from one side of a limb and go into the knuckle, then the rotating part in the connector would only let a certain amount through or change the color. The other side could pick that up. Though, I doubt we have such good sensors and small enough.
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>>32900 You may find optical flex sensors interesting. https://hackaday.com/2011/10/21/building-optical-flex-sensors/
>>32909 Yeah, very interesting, but I prefer to not have anything bending in the knuckles or any joint connector. We should've something in there that rotates and keeps up the connection, while maybe also indicating the position.
As to my previous assertion that a fiber-like form factor for rotation sensing in knuckles : ( >>32882, et al ) : why not use electricity instead, and use thin, bi-metallic strips as the sensor? This should create a Piezo field that can be read at the MCU, wouldn't it? >muh grid o' light!! :^) In essence, isn't either multiplexing, or even just straight-up GPIO pinouts -- with the accompanying downstream software readouts -- just about the same? A sort of 'six-of-one, half-dozen-of-the-other' thought experiment, no? <---> In the end, I suspect that these three design criteria will be the most important (in no particular order ATM) : * energy efficiency * cost of materials for manufacture * ease-of-manufacture
>>32919 >What would really be slick is to put a reflector on the end of the fiber Yes! I had actually thought of that myself (and that sort of time-based reflectometry is already used for distance-measurements of fibre runs). But as you say, it seems this might increase complexity/cost ?
>>32909 That looks quite similar to my idea, actually : * but with one homerunned fiber per joint * the sensor element would be attached at the distal end of each, and extend through the rotation frame (in this case, a knuckle) * all 15 knuckles would thus feed into one, 15-element fibre grid camera (per hand) * optimally, the light source itself would also be located back at the camera assembly, feeding input light into the sensor. The thus 're-transmitted' sensor data (very-likely at a different frequency than the source light [and to which the cam would be tuned for]) would be fed back down the same lightpipe to the grid camera. Simple to assemble, simple to maintain. Simple as. :^) <---> I might add to this that the finger-actuation 'tendons' (feeding up through the Carpal Tunnel wrist port, up from individual actuators located down in the forearm) would be laid down right alongside the sensor fibres in the same grooves/channels. >=== -add 'tendons' cmnt -prose edit
Edited last time by Chobitsu on 08/19/2024 (Mon) 08:31:15.
>>32946 >rotation sensing in knuckles : ( >>32882, et al ) : why not use electricity instead, and use thin, bi-metallic strips as the sensor? No, no because then you have wires (possible electromagnetic interference) which cost more than cheap plastic fiber, you have to have AtoD converters to read them(slow and you need a pile of MC to have them, more chips, more power, more complexity) and possibly(likely) supporting circuitry for the AtoD. It's just a big mess where with fibergrid you send out light from a LED to a bundle of fibers going to all the joints, sensors, the light hits a varying level target, bounces back through another fiber to a into a bundle which goes to one CCD camera. You could send the value of each CCD pixel to RAM and then use these as values to compare. And the CCD will at likely operate at 60Hxz, maybe 100Hz. Fast, accurate,cheap. I don't think it can be beat and since I heard of fibergrid I haven't thought much about using anything else as I can think of nothing cheaper, more efficient and or faster. I talked about an idea for pressure touch senors here(in the wrong thread) >>32918 and here >>32919 and much earlier >>24233 >>30980
>>32946 >In essence, isn't either multiplexing, or even just straight-up GPIO pinouts -- with the accompanying downstream software readouts -- just about the same? I'm not trying to be rude but I'm not sure you understand fibergrid. The CCD "camera" is taking a continuous stream of data from a sensor and then you get a count of it where as any other sort of wire input would only allow a brief sample(without sample and hold or AtoD or other such time consuming expensive circuitry), not near as accurate. Maybe read the hackaday article or what I wrote again.
>>32959 >I'm not trying to be rude Ehh, it's fine Anon. Actually, I'm rather pleased that you care so much about this tech. I have worked professionally with fibre before, and it's amazing stuff! :D As to my position (6/12), I think that's still the correct view. I've worked with OpenCV before (again, professionally), and you still have to 'quantize' the operation within some computation device whenever you'd index into the imgmat to read the light splat's position. Not a lot different than simply reading a voltage value off of a GPIO pin, AFAICT ? The electrical readout may even be faster in a heavy-load scenario (since it's a single memory address read access, not an index+read). >=== -minor edit
Edited last time by Chobitsu on 08/19/2024 (Mon) 21:43:03.
This is related to magnetic amplifiers here, >>32646 >>32870 >Kiwi might be right, if there's something better and we work with DC then what's the point? The point is cost. "If", and this does not apply to everyone, but "if" we want a waifu with 100% human movement then you need roughly 300 muscles. That's a lot of transistors, Cost is not too bad but you also have to add circuits to drive those from micro-controllers and diodes for the feedback and boards and more boards, it starts getting complicated. Mag amps are seriously robust and while not as efficient overall as transistors they are not inefficient. That being said I'm not even close to 100% sure this the best way, but it does seem to be "one" way that might work.
BTW, I forgot, thanks NoidoDev for putting that into Llama 8B it did make things clearer for me.
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>>32998 Thanks, but if I recall correctly in the response from Llama it told me that they are efficient anyways but the real problem was that these are harder to implement. Not sure if this is true, since Kiwi very likely knows better, LLMs can make errors in their responses it better to use them just for orientation and ideas.
>>33005 >harder to implement True, but that's because of the present "way" they implement them. Doesn't mean there's not another way. The present way is to wind a coil of wire around a armature but who says the conductors have to be copper wire or that they must be wound? Could they not be printed then sinistered or just printed or use low meting point soldier to replace copper lines. The AI doesn't know about these things only the way it's done now.
I wish I had a more powerful computer. Mine is not set up to do any sort of AI because I have no interest in gaming. So I've never needed a fast video card. They are anyways too damn expensive for me to buy one of any substance. Maybe if those guys who fiogured a way to refactor the neural net into a more effecient format, suing way less power start releasing models that are like 80b but only use the resources of a 8b then I could them.
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>>33008 I don't think you need to run a big model. These might be more useful as an assistant anyways. You can always use some online service if you only need a bigger model from time to time. And for your card 7B models should work, especially quantized ones. This should be in the LLM and chatbot thread >>250 or just search for it.
I found a really good reference book called, "Mechanisms and Mechanical Devices Sourcebook" It's a good rough guide to how things are done. Has some effeciency references and some tps on wys thngs are "generally" done. I think tiis is an excellent resource to kind of browse through. It might giove you some ideas oir you might could use it to see if you're ideas could notbe improved with a few samll changes. I foud it on the excellent free Tor bookstore, Just Another Library http://libraryfyuybp7oyidyya3ah5xvwgyx6weauoini7zyz555litmmumad.onion/ The book http://libraryfyuybp7oyidyya3ah5xvwgyx6weauoini7zyz555litmmumad.onion/meta?fname=archives/books/nonfiction/9780071704410.McGraw-Hill.Mechanisms_and_Mechanical_Devices_Sourcebook%2C_5th_Edition.Aug.2011.pdf You owe it to yourself to look at this book depository. It's great and one of the really super good features is when you load a book below it will be a selection of books that are similar in subject, though this function is sometimes way off. I would say that you could easily find enough good books on the subject of making waifus, drawing, engineering, that this one site and a lot of downloading would cover most everything.
OMG sp? My fumble fingers can not hit the right keys, and I forgot to scroll up and correct.
>>33446 Thanks for the book. I did a skim read through the first quarter, and it seems to explain each concept pretty clearly and without too much industry esoterica or jargon. I'll give it a proper read once I dive back into concept drafting. I'm chaging Orchid's plan to include demultiplexers since I want to reduce the internal frame size and motor count, so I'll need all the help I can get figuring out how to make that happen. Bookmarked the library too, the 'most downloaded' section gave me a good chuckle.
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>>33453 >Demux Picrel is a great conceptual reference for a mechanical demultiplexer. Would add sensors for indexing, also rounding the mating features would help. https://www.printables.com/model/163226-mechanical-multiplexer https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DWK3zm9SMs
An interesting idea that could be useful Making a 3D printer into a 2D plotter with G-code Generating Gcode from normal Images https://www.reddit.com/r/ender3/comments/1f6b75a/update_generating_gcode_from_normal_images/?chainedPosts=t3_15i2rr0%2Ct3_15xq6j7 https://github.com/IridiumIO/Polycut I could see this being useful for making stencils. I have this idea of making skin from NASA's flexible armor. To get the best results you need high resolution. You could print a stencil with ink, place over a plate coated with 3D resin and then put in the sun to cure the uncovered portions, building structures by layer. Slow to do but cheap because you don't need two machines.
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I was looking into Joule thief circuits and came across a site where a guy claimed he somehow put out 8x as much power as the input with a few small modifications to the circuit: https://www.homemade-circuits.com/8x-overunity-circuit-using-joule-thief/ I haven't tested it yet myself, but I'd be happy if it was just a more efficient version of the regular circuit.
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A website to help you develop your own cycloid actuators. https://mevirtuoso.com/cycloidal-drive/
>>33836 Very cool, thanks Light! BTW, if I haven't greeted you before, then welcome! Cheers. :^)
>>33836 Very nice. Thanks.
>>33836 Thanks, but the big deal for me was finding the formula for OpenScad by Dan Fekete on Youtube mentioned here >>24401 Maybe using something like this her and then importing the result into a program for further modification might also work, I could imagine.
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Electromagnets work via the physics of electric fields having magnetic fields. (Measured in teslas) This magnetic field can be intuitively modeled through the right hand rule. A coiled conductor, often insulated copper wire, will have a magnetic field where if curled fingers match the direction of current flow, your up pointing thumb will point in the direction of the north pole. This magnet is likely to be weak due to the magnetic field freely circulated around the wire. To have an effectively stronger electromagnet, you need to constrain the field. This requires a permeable material, a ferromagnetic material, to act as a core. This core (usually an iron based alloy) has tiny magnetic regions that are disordered, cancelling themselves out. When a field interacts with these magnetic regions, they align to that field. More current will create a stronger field around the coil, causing more of these regions to become aligned with the field. Eventually, this will reach a saturation point, where further increases in current no longer meaningfully effect the usable magnetism. After current is removed, most of these magnetic domains will revert to their disordered state. Some of these domains will remain aligned, an effect called hysteresis, leaving the core a weak permanent magnet. This is unlikely to matter for us. If it does become a problem, you can degauss it by rapidly alternating current in the coil. When designing your electromagnet (or deciding which one to use), you need to think of the magnetic circuit you need to achieve your goal. Think of what you want, then consider how to use the flow of magnetic fields to achieve that goal. Consider a voice coil actuator, you want it to smoothly, quietly, and efficiently move a load linearly. To accomplish this, you could wrap a coil of wire onto a tube of electrical steel (used for its high permeability and low hysteresis) with a neodymium magnet (high magnetic force relative to cost) in the center to move relative to the field. A spring would be added so that it would return to a resting state without requiring power. (Voice coils can have either the magnet or coil move. Usually the coil moves in applications where moving the load fast matters most, ie; speakers. Where the load must be heavier and controlled with greater stability, the magnet is moved, ie; gas control lines.) It is important to always remember, the fields weaken with distance. You want your electromagnetic fields as close to the load as possible. This is why the space between a motors stator and rotor are tiny. Why the coil wraps around the magnet as closely as possible in speakers, etc..
>>35055 POTD Let's all do SCIENCE! to it!! :D
>>35055 Thank you kiwi im planning on using a mix of iron powder and polyester based on this video https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YQNW4ZTsg2w he said polyeutherane but i assume polyester should work. Maybe i should finish the electromagnetic robot eyes. The steel screw magnet atleast was very innefficient however since it was very sensitive to resistance and drained the batteries in minutes. Okay yes ill finish the robot eyes might as well. i did this pretty rushed. not sure if i got the ratios right but i want to do this quickly.
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>>35061 too quickly..
>>35062 What are we looking at here? Did something break, Anon? Regardless, just keep moving forward, peteblank. Persistence overcomes more obstacles in life than anything else!! More than talent, more than resources, more than genius. Cheers. :^)
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I'd made this as a shitpost, but I was curious how viable it might be. The biggest engineering issue I think is the arms. Even the arm joints were very basic I'd be afraid of getting the pressure calibration correct. I joke about harm to the user if the safety settings are overridden but it probably wouldn't be a good look for the product if it regularly crushed their user to death.
>>35067 ive seen these on farms, humorously called crushers, doesnt look like a person but effectively functions the same, it just hugs/squeezes the cow for a while to reduce stress, they probably use a hydrophilic piston with a pressure valve so its not possible to go beyond the designed force
>>35067 >I'd made this as a shitpost, but I was curious how viable it might be. Great idea, Anon. I think it's entirely viable! It could be a big hit if you pull it off correctly. BTW, I'd suggest you have a look at our Kiwigril thread : ( >>104 ). Looking forward to seeing your project's progress here, Anon! Cheers. :^)
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>>35067 sounds familiar ;) The engineer in me has solved the human squish problem: arms driven by a winch and use elastic cord as cable to pull the arms in. Similar to one of those hands made out of plastic drinking straws. Tighter the winch winds, the tighter the hug. But its bungee cord so easy to free if something goes wrong.
>>35063 tnak you chobitsu. its my 3rd attempt. i printed a mini spoon and made sure the ratios were right this time but i think itll get stuck on the mold like the second time. i hate casting. if you want to know what im trying to do watch the youtube link i posted.
>>35071 this is not what i had in mind. i could put some tin foil paper in between the mold but its very powdery. Hardly worth the hassle. why isnt there iron rods for sale ff. i already got the materials so i might as well keep trying it to do it this way i guess. He used polyutherane though im using polyester. Very strong odor.
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>>35069 Stylistically, I can appreicate it but mechanically I don't like it. Kiwi project looks like a body pillow with legs. Also, I've seen what happens if you let your guard down around a kiwi girl...
>>35084 >Also, I've seen what happens if you let your guard down around a kiwi girl... Kek. Mean as. :D Anyway, good luck Anon! Keep us all up to date with your project's progress here please. Cheers.
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>>35074 Im going to have to make a bigger mold i think but using tinfoil so it wont get stuck to the mold helped.

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