>>23367 >the waifu Which one? I think most of us understand what we are doing as working on frameworks. >>23369 > If you buy some spandex suit you're going to have to sew it. I don't get what you mean, but that's partially because you're so verbose. Write less, say more. Both of you seem to assume it's some kind of textile or fabric on one hand or silicone rubber on the other. I never indicated that. The rubber holds onto the textile parts, the outer skin should always be silicone rubber.

>>23372 I don't think the spandex or textile is really necessary or is it? I looked into this video for reference: https://youtu.be/USvTtyaj6Go

Correction. Silicon is stronger than TPE.

>>23372 >Write less So you say my writing is problem but start talking about spandex. Well what are we to think? Now your saying silicon...over spandex???, what's the use of that? I'm verbose because I have always said I don't like silicon and think microfiber is far smoother and easier to clean but that's not the norm. I know that. To make that clear requires, words. I'm willing to bet that my "verbosity" made that fairly clear what I was aiming for. But it seems to offend you. But I'll talk less.

>>23379 So the skin is going to go on top of a shell which is going to be the exoskeleton for that houses the inner parts. So I think my approach would be that after the shell is finished to get some paper clay and press the shell onto the clay, make it dry and then do the slush casting with the silicon or something like that. I don't know.

>>23379 Now I get it, you want to use something like microfiber instead of silicone skin. I really forgot about that and didn't know. >But it seems to offend you. No, I never wrote that, I just meant I sometimes find it hard to understand your point and it's a lot to read. Fact is, you write longer comments than others. >willing to bet that my "verbosity" made that fairly clear It makes it harder to find the line of thought by going back to older comments and look there, because these are very long. >>23376 >I don't think the spandex or textile is really necessary or is it? There are concerns that silicone rubber would tear after a while. There's the idea to have silicone rubber which would be able to stretch a lot, but it is constraint by it's connection to a textile. So it won't be stressed too much. Also, maybe in some cases, we might want it thinner than recommended with rubber only. >>23371 These soft TPE dolls are being "baked", look for videos about Chinese sexdoll factories on Youtube.

>>23358 Nice. Thanks Grommet!

>>23381 No, I never wrote that, I just meant I sometimes find it hard to understand your point and it's a lot to read. Don't read my comments. Cost you nothing. Don't comment on things if you don't understand them with insults like,"Write less, say more..." You don't understand ask a question. The reason I said "i must have offended you" is your dick head response. What do you expect in return if you talk to people that way. I think you just don't like me. And that's fine but a decent person would just refrain from interacting with me not trying to attack me. If you want to criticize me for some technical reason I'm perfectly fine with that. I will answer and if I think you are right I'll say so. If I can't agree I will say that, provide some sort of counter argument, but if that doesn't convince you then I leave it alone as it's not worth belaboring the point forever. >Fact is, you write longer comments than others. So...maybe instead of talking about a way to get a customized super soft microfiber skin I should say, "wow skin is hard" like Barbie. Unfortunately this is one of those things that is difficult to explain but the actual motions of knitting and crocheting are not super difficult. That millions of tons of this stuff are made every year on big machines that "used" to be made by hand in peoples cottages ...forever in the past, means we might could 3D print such a machine for ourselves. Anyone who wants to know what I'm taking about look at a few "knitting" and "crocheting" 101 videos and you will see. The various stitches CAN get super complex but the basic ones are not at all. They teach them to little children. I think this can be automated with 3D printers. >willing to bet that my "verbosity" made that fairly clear It makes it harder to find the line of thought by going back to older comments and look there, because these are very long. And you, specifically YOU, are one that's complained about people talking off topic in threads. I agree. That's why I try to put things in the threads they belong but there's just no getting around the fact that talking about 3D printing in the 3D printing thread, to make 3D printed machines, to make automated skin suits for waifus can not be all in one place. And different aspects of that will tend to roam about because it's a big ass subject. cont.

cont. Now I'm really going to annoy you because not only will I be verbose I will use entirely unrelated things to make broad general statements and link a bunch of shit I said before. The reason I write verbose long stuff is because I'm strongly interested in the basics. The base of what needs to be done for an outstanding product. Not some silicon gross thing but something that feels great, looks great and is easy to care for. I've for a long time thought in a manner of thinking, this way, about most things. It was only when Elon Musk stated it as like a rule to follow that I really woke up and from then on I try to systematically think this way. He said that any thing you do you need to think about the lowest level of what you are doing. Is there a better way and is there unnecessary steps that are done just for the sake of,"well we always did it this way". There's a video by this guy named Kurt Sorenson. He used to work for NASA and now owns a company attempting to make molten salt nuclear reactors. I think just like this guy. I have even read all the books that he mentioned before I saw his video. If you have any interest in nuclear power, even the slightest, then this video of him is the best thing you will ever see in your life. You will really gain a good understanding of how nuclear power works and why decisions were made for them to be as they are now. It's long. It's also a fairly decent representation of the way I think. He went through a process of looking at the steps needed to make nuclear power viable, profitable and much, much safer. Kirk Sorensen @ PROTOSPACE on Liquid Fluoride Thorium Reactors 2:36:45 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVSmf_qmkbg So I'm verbose but here's some verbosity I engaged in. I tried to look at the power requirements needed and how much this cost. >>12014 I even talked about better skin way back under the name El Goucho Domino which I changed because I felt it was too aggressive and annoying and that, I do not want to be, with the caveat that if people are rude to me I will be so to them also. >8311 I talked a lot about "dielectric elastomers" until I finally realized that, right now, there's no way to get over the high voltage problems needed for them. I talked a shit load about actuators in this thread >>10620 and the subsequent one >>12929 because they are really the basis of the whole effort. Without good actuators and "cheap" actuators we might as well fuck silicon sleeves. I talked several times about what are the power requirements needed. This in turn determines the battery and power requirements. We need to know this stuff. Just making it up will cost time and money. >>12014 >>12140 >>13408 Operating systems and what and how many processors for proper operation >>12474 Low cost and common networks for nervous systems >>12481 Ways that people have come up with to possibly dramatically by a factor of ten increase the power of neural nets. >>18652 I could go on. And in most instances I talk about cost. A lot. I bring things I find then may times I've subsequently changed my mind because of cost. if we want a lot of these that will have to be cheap. Someone said they didn't want to spend over $2,000 and I expect that's correct for them to really take off. So there's no way to talk about this broad range of things without being "verbose" or skipping around a bit because processors are hooked to the muscles which a many different types of actuators, it goes on and on. I'm beginning to think commenting on the internet is just a huge waste of time for me. I have a have habit of trying to think about the base level of things and it does take a good bit of verbiage. And I also have wild ideas that are are little bit loopy and out of the box. For some reason, (herd instinct???), this just drives some people nuts. It really pisses them off and instead of talking about the idea or trying to refute it they say some stupid shit like,"Write less, say more". Some people I think can just not help themselves from attacking anyone who doesn't say what they want or think. I've quit several places because of this," just kill yourself", commenting. So then people can just say the same shit over and over and be really happy. Never looking at alternatives. Even if mine are wrong it doesn't cost you a thing to scroll down and not read it.

>>23376 >I don't think the spandex or textile is really necessary or is it? For some, not at all. My reasons for not liking it are, 1. It cost a lot. That stuff is super expensive. Look up the cost. 2. I hate the feel of silicon. Sticky and gross, to me. 3. I like microfiber because it's really soft. Try felling some microfiber sheets. Remember there's two kinds. The sheet and fabric kind and the towel drying kind. The towel drying kind is kind of grabby and less soft because it has split fibers in it to soak up water. 3. Having a stretchable, removable covering makes the waifu modular. You can replace the skin. People regrow skin, waifus do not so they need to be replaced. Now you could use silicon but...I hate it, but some people may like gummy, sticky waifus. I had one guy say he liked the sound of washing machine waifus, so who knows.

To get an idea of why I think crochet or knitting could be automated look at a little of this video. She has good stuff. There's a massive amount of crochet and knitting stuff online. Here's a good one. Keep in mind this is large thread. To make a skin suit you would want tiny thread like they have in sheets. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMLaNEtWUq8 The basic idea being to make a chain stitch like she shows but instead of doubling back keep going around in a circle. The different volumes would be made by stitching one row bigger or lessor than the last. Basically exactly like 3D printing but you are laying down rows of stitches instead of plastic. Crochet uses one needle, best as I can tell, and knitting two. I found a good source of knitting at the gay knit boy channel. Here's a video of his. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQ4RO1R6FrI I have no idea whether knitting or crochet would be the best way to go. Knitting of course looks to require two needles so may be more complicated but it might be easier to automate. I don't know.

>>23402 You are projecting a lot into what I wrote. > And I also have wild ideas that are are little bit loopy and out of the box ... instead of talking about the idea or trying to refute it they say some stupid shit like,"Write less, say more" It meant it just as I explained: Finding out what the topic is,which you are writing about is sometimes difficult. It's not an insult and I have noting to do with people telling you to "just kill yourself".

Friendly reminder that silicone impregnate cloth is fantastic. The idea of using microfiber as the base is a fantastic idea. Just apply it to a skintight microfiber body stocking. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_R0gEDZhAI Silicone can easily be turned into a touch sensor. Mix in some conductive powder. Problem being, that will lead to black silicone skin. Most easy to use conductive powders such as carbon, are dark or black. A touch sensitive under skin may work. TPU and TPE are the best materials if she's 3D printed. As for 3D knitting, it's far more difficult than you'd think. Tooling for cloth production is not cheap and requires high tolerances. Best to just use what's already available. I do understand the aversion to seems but, seems aren't worth millions to avoid. Even the high-end Tesla Bot has many seems.

>>23402 >because I'm strongly interested in the basics. Always the key to long-term success! :^)

>>23445 >I do understand the aversion to seems but, seems aren't worth millions to avoid. This. Blue-sky spitballing is always important in the beginning, but eventually the 'rubber has to meet the road'. Practical realities must always be accounted for. We must be both creative and independent thinkers, as well as pragmatists (as all pioneers need to be). Right now costs need to be basically our chief concern IMO. We've already explored much of the fundamental design space for robowaifus, I deem. Time for the Model A designs (read: simple, inexpensive) to begin to materialize.

>>23450 Okay I agree with that. Let's just work on the exoskeleton tbh, it was voted on and it makes sense to me that it'd be a good starting point anyways. I'd work with kiwi but I already said I want to sell mine and the author of that model doesn't want people to sell it so I think I'll just make mine from scratch and avoid this landmine. In blender though. I'm almost done with the speech to speech with waifu ai. In the mean time if people around here can get acquainted with solidworks or freecad so they can contribute that'd be a good idea. Also although necessary I think git commands are important too. If anybody here wants to do AI please focus on the movement and not entirely on the chatbot please. I've been trying to avoid the pi's cause they're so expensive but i might end up needed one tbh. Maybe look into hooking up a raspberry pi to 1 or 2 arduinos and experimenting. Also if somebody could look into the o3de or unreal engine simulations on the mean time that'd also be good cause we can do this thing faster that way. If somebody could figure out the skin that'd be great too ofcourse cause I'm not sure how to go about doing that but not just talking about like come on man purchase the materials. These are suggestions ofcourse but suggestions with an exclamation point cause this thing has been stagnant for too long.

>>23450 >Right now costs need to be basically our chief concern Pure cost and instant do ability, but with seams, search for "fully elasticized fitted sheets" then look for the microfiber ones. One thing I'm not clear on is if the elastic is all through the sheet or just the corners. It may be that you can sew the shape you want, turn inside out on a form, spread silicon or whatever. The form would be tight so when you put it on the waifu the silicon would pull it tight.

>>23406 >"Write less, say more" It meant it just as I explained: Finding out what the topic is,which you are writing about is sometimes difficult. It's not an insult You trying to tell me you understood "nothing", nothing at all about what I said? Such that you could ask a question to get me to clarify, and then instead of doing that say, "Write less, say more" If you don't understand why that's insulting then you have some sort of mental neurological problem relating to people and how what you say will perceived by them. People with low level autism say stuff like this all the time. If you would have said, "you are hard to understand and I do not understand, this or that, I would not have been offended", but you didn't.

>>23463 low level autism people don't say anything at all lol. well I know spandex is cheap, you could get a little bit of silicon and do some tests. It doesn't have to be a barrel. I being relatively broke might be the one who ends putting this thing together in the end because its going to cost some money. You know even though I'm relatively broke. Doesn't the stuff you were talking about come in pellet form? Really you could get like a jar of that stuff. Would be cool seeing some real world progress instead of swapping news and articles back and forth for... years...

>>23464 >Doesn't the stuff you were talking about come in pellet form? Really you could get like a jar of that stuff I'm not sure what you are referencing. If it's microfiber. No, it's micro due to very small holes they extrude it through and blast of air. Silicon, yes.

>>23464 >low level autism people don't say anything at all I see that more as HIGH level autism. Meaning more of it. Low meaning less.

>>23445 I've done experiments with conductive silicone skin and the conductive powder is terrible for many reasons (resolution, homogeneous mixing, opacity, low conductivity, curing inhibition, and more). Chopped carbon fiber in silicone works the best but isn't as flexible and can tear apart easily. What works the best is embedding a flexible conductor of any kind in a grid inside the silicone. Conductive grease and coils of wire/carbon fiber work. As long as it's highly conductive you can make a capacitive sensor grid and use a teensy LC to give you a readout.

>>23607 Has this really never been posted here? I was sure I did, or someone else. >pressure sensor matrix https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JBSHqUcaG4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0uPZwMg5B3k Hard to build though. - Wherever possible we should go for something like GelSight, or at least in the parts which need the best resolution (fingertips). - Then there's the concept of a wire around a flexible rope. If it is stretched something can be measured (magnetism I assume). - By looking for the pressure matrix I also found sensors for beds. This might be worth looking into. I guess this is what "embedding a flexible conductor" in >>23607 meant.

>>23607 what about just using magnetic induction, like a guitar pickup, bunch of small magnetic dots spread out far underneath the skin where theres probably already going to be normal wiring, the skin on the surface wouldnt need to be conductive at all it just needs some flecks of metal spread out to disturb the magnetic field and induce a current

>>23613 Hmm, that looks interesting.

>>23613 That seems a pretty clever idea anon. How smol do you think the dots can be and still be effective at this? What about the conductors to the digital sensors reading the inducted signal, just a mesh of hair-thin wire maybe?

>>23623 no idea, the ones on guitars are already pretty small and sensitive but the coils seem long, that might be because its for an instrument, if you lightly scratch the string with your finger youll hear it picked up in the amplifier, im guessing it doesnt need to be that long if youre not interested in that level of sensitivity and just want it as a simple sensor, the magnet still has be strong enough to reach the skin though so depends how far away its going to be it doesnt have to be strings specifically, you just need something magnetic in the field like a steel ball or powdered rust in the skin, when it moves up/down you get a +/- current

For some quick basic ideas about capacitive sensing I found an interesting link that provides basic info. https://www.allaboutcircuits.com/technical-articles/introduction-to-capacitive-touch-sensing/ I don't know how well they work put the ESP32 micro-controller I always marvel at has capacitive sensing circuits built in. 10 × touch sensors (capacitive sensing GPIOs) It looks interesting. I also found a Texas Instruments tech brief that covers some of the same.

>>23626 I see, thanks Anon! Seems worthy of experiments IMO. Cheers.

>>23630 >he ESP32 micro-controller I always marvel at has capacitive sensing circuits built in. I'd forgotten that. Thanks Grommet!

>>23626 >guitar cord sensor There's certainly enough space in the thighs for example. Fantastic idea. >23612 >rubber cords or strings (to buy) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzsSNkoYoXU >soft fabric sensors https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZqryncwI7g

Here we go. Now I know people will say I'm contradicting myself and I am. Wanting a perfect smooth skin and now showing something, I like, that is none of that but...I just like it. Hexagonal flexible solids made by NASA. This is so cool. I bet it would look great on a robowaifu. And it's definitely doable. Would be great in TPU so you can stretch it on. Maybe there might be a way you could print this in sections and then use some sort of fastener to tie the sections together. Maybe you could make the hexagons smaller and round the edges a little. Here's a link to a reddit article on it, https://www.reddit.com/r/3Dprinting/comments/144gjsd/3d_printed_hexagonal_chain_mail_matrix_designed/ a search term "Nasa chainmail" An actual stl file to print https://www.printables.com/model/205674-nasa-chainmail-4x4-8x8-12x16-and-32x34 and I will try to upload a video

Another idea. You could make the chain mail different sizes. So where clothes would be worn, bigger chain mail and sequence over to smaller on the face hands, arms feet.

>>23722 That's great. I also agree with making this out of TPU. But unlike you, I look at this more as underskin. Something like this could hold sensors and the cables leading there.

On second look may be a model and not stl file.

>>23722 >Hexagonal flexible solids made by NASA. This is so cool. I bet it would look great on a robowaifu. IMO at the very least the basic idea itself should serve as a jumping-off point for a shell/skin-substrate. Interesting idea Grommet, thanks! :^)

This stuff looks so cool. Very robo-style https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3095799 I know it seems contradictory and it is but I like, for example, Gothic cathedrals, the Temples of Hera & Poseidon in Italy, (Look this up. Probably my favorite buildings or top ten), and I also like "some" modern Brutalist style buildings. I like robots that look real or that look like robots but the cheap looking silicon fake bots they have now mostly look like crap to me. I think the in between looks bad to me.

>>23734 when in doubt always use an anime girl

I ran across this link looking for micro-fiber thread. http://swatches.ultrasuede.us/swatches/index.php If you were going to sew up a waifu suit for the skin I bet this would be really good. It;s microfiber fake suede. Likely far better, stronger, more stain resistant and softer than real suede. And the link above is a place where you can order several swatches of different types to get a feel for what you want. I wish more manufacturers would do small samples. And if ANYONE, anyone at all can find a link to micro-fiber thread on spools please tell me where. I have searched and searched and searched and I get is blankets, clothes, everything you can think of made of microfiber but I can't seem to find spools of just the fiber like the big multi-thousand yard spools of thread they sell for sewing. The fiber should be about 1 denier or less. Search engines have declined in a really big manner. Many years ago you could search and get very narrow defined returns Now. Forget it. You search for clown shoes and get back returns for rocket ships. Sometimes there's no relation at all.

>>23739 >when in doubt always use an anime girl Good thinking peteblank! :^) >>24487 >Likely far better, stronger, more stain resistant and softer than real suede. Sounds excellent Grommet, thanks! >And if ANYONE, anyone at all can find a link to micro-fiber thread on spools please tell me where. I for one will be sure to if I stumble across such. Good luck Anon! :^)

I thought about doing casting for the skin but it might not be necessary. The skin might be easier than I thought.

>>24712 Then again if the waifu are to be done in bulk casting is still the better approach though.

>>24712 I think this approach may in fact serve us very well for a robowaifu's face, boobas, and vagoo. Good luck with your research! :^)

I was looking for the link on using optical fibers linked to camera chips for sensors (this is one of the greatest ideas in history). The link for using cameras and fiber for sensors is, https://hackaday.com/2019/08/30/fibergrid-an-inexpensive-optical-sensor-framework/ While looking for this I found a new link that really fits in well with the other that I had not seen. This one, https://hackaday.com/2011/10/21/building-optical-flex-sensors/ A little thought and you will see this guy has figured out a way to make very good touch/pressure sensors that could be waterproof, reliable, self contained and if you combine this with the first, cameras used to sense the values of light back from sensors, now you have a complete sensor package. You can use optical encoders fed by fiber(light) for motion and use this second idea for pressure, touch, sensing and with the first, cameras for sensing, you have the whole thing in one nice package. If the touch sensors are in a X-Y grid you have position sensing, which could be combined with the light attenuation to give touch pressure values with point locality. Since cameras these days have huge values you could have a very precise position location sensing. And the whole thing in a waifu could be self calibrating. So you plug all these fibers and/or sensors into a package. The waifu bends it's limbs in sequence under control while monitoring the feedback from the sensors. After it calibrated what joints go to which pixels on the camera it starts squeezing it's body parts and calibrates the amount of squeeze with pressure and calibrates which pixels and by how much they change. The whole done in a few minutes. Could even do so periodically to make sure calibration is correct with wear. Now the trick is to get away from fiber. Stringing together all these fibers is labor intensive. The second link shows a path to this. In it he has a hollow tube with a filler. What if you made a trough for one side of a skin section and on the other side a hill that fits into the trough? The outsides would be a dark rubber. So you flex it and the light hits the dark rubber and is absorbed as opposed to going straight through the thin film which is clear that you made the trough and hill out of. When I say film I'm saying you make this structure, like a big flexible nervous system out of a cast plastic. Possibly cast the clear interior then spay over, paint or cast the exterior dark surface. I suspect that there will be some trickery and art involved in making this film, trough and hill structure to get the maximum sensitivity without blocking the light all together. You would have to separate the joint bending light attenuation from the pressure/touch sensing light attenuation. I suppose you could bend, then pressure test, touch calibration. Since it knows it's bending joints and knows this value then any further attenuation of light would be assumed to be touch. Every since I heard about the camera fiber sensor idea I've been trying to think of a way to make this THE method of sensing for all facets of the robowaifu I think, "this is the way", though I have no doubt there are lots of niggling bugaboos that could cause trouble. But once you could get some small section worked out and function properly then it's only a matter of multiplying that small section onto the whole of the waifu. I could see the biggest problem is that a film of clear plastic is NOT a fiber optic so there's some possibility that you would not get enough return light for this to work properly. It is possible you may need to have two clear films. One in the center with one refractive index and one on the outside with a, I think, higher refractive index. This would bend the light towards the center but some value of bending would allow light to leak, attenuating it. On the other hand the distances are very small so light attenuation from distance may not matter and can be calibrated with the camera sensor even if the light attenuation is high.

>>30980 Thanks! Great content, Grommet. Cheers. :^)

Found an article that talks about different kinds of touch and it links to papers on artificial nociceptors (feel pain ) and an artificial nervous system to react to pain. I once read someone talk about how it is important for any robot to feel pain because if they cant they will be unable to empathize with human pain. https://www.nature.com/articles/s42256-022-00496-2 And here is a paper mentioning a magnetic field sensing method for pressure and i assume texture sensing https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/scirobotics.aat0429

This sounds not too but cost wise but it would only help doing hands for touch but ideally you want full body sensors. https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/soft-robot-hand-human-touch-17081346 https://doi.org/10.1002/admt.202200595

>>31029 Very interesting. The pressure bandwidth is especially impressive.

I think this might interest. It's a way to cut slits in flat materials and then when pulled they automatically form rounded shapes of all sorts. There's a video of them using copper and aluminium to form faces and all sorts of stuff. Some are compliant elastomer. I'm thinking this "might" come in handy to make pressure sensitive skin backing or more rugged forms for lighter skin. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrOjy-v5JgQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFkD45NUIzQ I think it's a difficult problem to provide touch sensors all over. It might be easier to form them on a stiffer board material then cut slits in it to have it conform to the body. This would then be covered with another skin material separating the task into units.

>>31040 I was looking at the papers it referenced and this is a good one with a bot of an overview. A Mini Review of Recent Advances in Optical Pressure Sensor http://jsstec.org/_PR/view/?aidx=35687&bidx=3202 It has a retarded view but can be saved as a pdf