>>495 Yesterday's Enterprise Cause and Effect Tapestry

>>757 That trial wasn't about Picard recognizing data's sentience but about the unresolved question of official legal recognition of his rights and status. It's also shit I would think had come up when he tried to join star fleet. I mean, what did star fleet regard him as before that trial? A walking computer with a military rank and command authority but isn't a person? The real problem you seem to be getting at is the divide between AI's in star trek, and holographic programs, that are some how not considered AI's. Consider how in voyager star fleet uses their EMH's as slave labour in mines and how in Picard, even after having banned all research and use of AI's for a decade or more, they still use emergency holograms with near human intelligence without pause. The only explanation would be that holographic intelligence's and AI's are somehow not the same thing in Star Trek.

>>757 >>852 You missed the point. Data was not acknowledged to have rights because he was intelligent, but because he was unique. A run-of the mill hologram, even the EMH, isn't the same thing out of the box. It wasn't until the Doctor's program ran for a really long time and grew in complexity and capability that it went from mindless surgical machine to a person. The problem here is a lot of people think there is a hard line between "not sentient" and "sentient", similar to one between "not alive" and "alive". In reality, there is no such line. There is a smooth gradient of complexity from rocks to crystals to prions to viruses to bacteria to animals to apes to protohumans to modern humans. The same thing applies here. Is the Enterprise computer self-aware and intelligent? Sure. But it doesn't have rights and isn't "alive" because it's not unique; there are infinite identical copies of its program back at Starfleet HQ. I don't actually know the timeline with Data off the top of my head. But if he "joined" Starfleet shortly after Soong activated him, he'd have been a blank slate program that hadn't yet developed the uniqueness required to achieve personhood, and probably when that happened nobody in Starfleet expected him to grow to the degree he did. This smooth gradient of complexity patches what seems like a plot hole perfectly.

>>853 That's an utterly retarded line of reasoning if you think about it for even a second. It's not the number of copies of a mind that determines if it's sentient. The doctor, being a hologram, can be copied, and that copy will also be sentient if run on a sufficiently powerful computer. They do this in show. You are right in the difference between smart computer program designed to emulate human behavior, like your average hologram, and something like Moriarty or the doctor, that are so complex as to be indistinguishable from human style sentience is fluid and hard to define. I would argue that the difference is mainly a question of processing power and complexity, but that is besides the point. All the same, it is not Data's uniqueness that makes him sentient. He wouldn't become less self aware or intelligent just because you copied him. Case in point, B4 and Lore, being almost exactly the same as Data. When he joined Starfleet, was commissioned as an officer, earned his promotion to lieutenant commander and was given a post as 3rd officer on the fleets flagship, isn't important, only that it happened before the series started is. What is important however, is that he was given these things, and that Starfleet doesn't hand these things out to pocket calculators. His rank gives him command authority, so Starfleet must trust his judgement enough to let him order around other officers, and not only that, but put him in a position to command the fleets most prestigious ship whenever the two highest ranking officers aren't on the bridge or in the event they are incapacitated. Why would starfleet give Data this kind of authority if they don't trust his ability to make decisions like any other officer of that rank? You'd think a question like "is Data a person who can make decisions or a piece of property" would have come up some time before Starfleet made him an officer with command authority. Are there a lot of starfleet officers that aren't considered intelligent enough to be sentient running around somewhere? Did archer set some kind of horrible precedent by finally making porthos an actual starfleet officer or something?

>>857 The whole thing with the Doctor's "program" being copied broke the established logic that the franchise was working with and I hate it for that reason. I hate the existence of B4 and that he was supposed to be a "replacement" for Data despite doing nothing to earn it, even more. It's like they're afraid of character death and so come up with contrived situations to avoid it, but then think "oh shit wait" when they realize they remove all narrative tension when they make a character functionally immortal. What reason do we ever have to worry about the Doctor being in harm's way if they could have just stored another copy of his program somewhere in Voyager's computers? What reason would we have to be concerned about Data if Soong can just shit out another android and it'd be "almost exactly the same". Starfleet, by and large, seems to be an expert at throwing the proverbial spaghetti at the wall and seeing what sticks, and not changing anything unless they have to. I'm sure the question over Data's sentience came up a time or two, but because he functioned in the capacity granted him, so they just shrugged it off and kicked the can down the road. Maybe, before then, there just had never been someone who ever proposed taking him apart and trying to make more. Or they just figured that machine intelligence in command positions was a natural evolution of technology, and it would free up the living humans to do science and art and other such Federation shit. After all, there is PROBABLY a precedent where the Enterprise computer can take command and warp the ship out of danger if everyone on board is incapacitated because of exposure to antithorium gas radiation from a reverse-folded dogcum nebula. It also depends how you see command authority on a starship aka a Navy. Is everyone on board below the Captain's rank just a tool to be used at his discretion? Because if so, whether that tool is a person or a machine intelligence doesn't make much of a difference. Picard "trusts" Data to be third in command, but he also "trusts" the replicator to serve him tea, Earl Grey, hot and not cyanide, and he "trusts" the warp core to not have a programming malfunction that causes it to instantly breach. The idea that people could think Data is a soulless machine despite being capable at his JOB isn't really a stretch if we assume these are people who still believe in magical, immeasurable, undefined things such as souls. The judge lady even said something to that effect in the episode. >Are there a lot of starfleet officers that aren't considered intelligent enough to be sentient running around somewhere? No reason why not. I'm sure they could find some kind of menial task for them to do so they can contribute, even if that's just sweeping the floors.

>>8 >If Star Trek is set in the future how come there is no anime in it? Because strek always features the educated (indoctrinated), productive, and ambitious elites of their society. There are no episodes for the futureHentai addicts posting on their subspace message boards about how retarded the Prime Directive is (and it's all just Vulcan subversion anyway, you should do the research m80).

>>843 I mean, there was Barclay. Granted, they showed his "holodeck addiction" as part of an overall trend toward mental disease, but it was there. Really though, it seemed as if Trek really wanted to push this crazy idea that holodecks would replace literally all forms of creativity. All vidya is on the holodeck. All movies are interactive and on the holodeck. Even books have seemingly been replaced, what with Voyagers "holo-novels". This might be because the creators were producing a live-action TV series, and therefore were ill-equipped to understand that not every narrative works in a live-action format; and that, being PRODUCERS, also didn't understand that most people merely consume media rather than being an active part of it.

>>854 I think that could partly be explained by Roddenberry's transhumanist ideals. In the future, people will be more noble and crave more than just consuming media, they want to experience more deeply and to be a part of it. We kindo f see the opposite in Voyager. In that shitty time travel episode, they're watching TV, and Kes says something like, "There's something to be said for this non-interactive media," or some shit like that. It's like she hadn't even considered it as a possibility before. Also, we do see Picard reading books occaisionally. Back on Earth, there could be plenty of Weebs reading old manga reprints.

>>855 >In the future people won't be people anymore This is why I prefer later TNG and DS9. Every single TOS episode and early TNG just felt like maudlin "oh, look how much more mature and better humans are compared to today's monster/culture of the week". It's heavy-handed at best, cringy at worst.

Shit, I've just found this board. I didn't know /strek/ was still around.

>>308
There's no reason to play STO, these days they only make content related to the Kurtzmanverse.

>>451
>Just try to remember to log-in once every two weeks BO.
I have no life. That won't be hard.

>>451 >Just try to remember to log-in once every two weeks BO BO, we thank you for your service.

>>453 Shit, guess I'll just play all those old Trek games in my backlog. Elite Force sounds fun.

>>845 Nice. Let us know how it goes.

>>298
This is an officially sanctioned drinking kanar with Damar thread.

>>317
A good glass of kanar is meant to be savored just like a red leaf tea. Perhaps that is why you would never make it in the Obsidian Order.

>>7
Didn't he say that he would build a subspace graviton beam and make Bajor pay for it?

That was the pic next to the announcement.

>>229 Oh, Elim. Such thoughts are beneath you! I know that the Obsidian Order corrupts everything it touches but there is no need for that sort of talk between men who once called each other colleagues. Besides, if you want to talk of 'prohibited liaisons' then maybe we should bring a certain young human doctor to the table?

PICARD EPISODE 2 IN 50 MIN https://cytu.be/r/Guntstream

>>769 Never knew we were still watching.

MORE TAS

>>825 Kek. Did TOS have any hot catgrills on the show? Or any of them for that matter?

>>826 No, but at least one (though I think actually two) of the movies had a catdude.

Well, are you guys staying over at deadchan?

>>790 It's still less dead than here, I'm afraid.

>No /strek/ vidya thread Sad Also >play Starsector for a whil >get to the late-game colony sim stuff. >make completely planned and AI assisted colony by farming alpha cores and slowly gained the ability to terraform planets via a mod >able to make many planets in the solar system possible to be inhabited by humanity with little to no need for environmental gear >basically making a densely populated reach of space completely overpowering all the other factions by miles. MFW was Cockshott cybernetics right?

>>822 Is that the one with the big tiddy fish mommy?

Turns out Big Tiddy Fish Mommy is Endless Space 2. That and Star Sector are both on my list of "games I need to get around to."

Also notice Shatner is missing.

It's not a surprise. >>816 and no Marc Alaimo.

>>816 And someone else.

>>817 Kurtzman is butthurt, and is crashing the franchise with no survivors.

Trekmovie interviewed him recently and the guy desperately wants to guest star in Kurtzman Trek.

>>801 Just when you think he can't be any more of a piece of shit...

>>802 Being the host of an after show where he gets to interview and suck Akiva Goldsman's cock after each episode of STD and Picard wasn't enough.

>>803 Always more. He's a classic attention whore.

>>734 I still don't get why everyone thinks Code of Honor was racist, other than for some reason all the aliens were played by black actors. The actual plot is fine it's the casting that's questionable.

>>784 It's not racist. It's race realist. Niggers gonna nig.

>>784 The writer of that episode wrote the exact same episode for Stargate SG-1.

>>784 The planet of kangs was too chad for the soys.

>>793 lolno

based vulcans tbh sebpai desu.

>Vulcans find it fascinating Is this because Vulcans are into spankings?