Robowaifus will need power to run, and since they will be mobile this means a mobile power system too. ITT post info on batteries and other mobility capable power systems. --- > related-thread : (>>5080) >=== -add crosslink

This university research project aims to make recharging your power system as quick as refilling a tank of special electrolytes. While it's aimed at the automotive industry, maybe it will have importance to the robowaifu industry as well.

https://www.invidio.us/watch?v=yNZkbt928oA

>>786
While being an overall cool advancement, I don't think robowaifu's will really need fast charging capabilities. After all what else would she be doing while "asleep"

>>787
In the sixth Chobits episode, 'Chii Weakens' charging you're robowaifu (ie, getting Chii's master Hideki to learn that he even needs to) is the topic, and when the landlady (secretly Chii's mom) finally begins charging her up for Hideki, the implication is that she's charging up super fast. But then again, she's a super robowaifu, so maybe that's expected.

As to 'what else would she be doing' [at night], I may hear the sound of /clang/ing off in the distance heh. Sometimes she just might need a quick recharge tbh.

How about a bio-reactor that used microbes to generate energy? Bonus: you could have dinner with your waifu.

>>790
That's an interesting idea anon. Have any info links?

>Bonus: you could have dinner with your waifu.
Leld.
>inb4 robowaifu farting ala the Bicentennial Man scene

Samsung claims this tech will charge 5x faster, and store 45% more energy per volume.
>In theory, a battery based on the “graphene ball” material requires only 12 minutes to fully charge. Additionally, the battery can maintain a highly stable 60 degree Celsius temperature, with stable battery temperatures particularly key for electric vehicles.

news.samsung.com/global/samsung-develops-battery-material-with-5x-faster-charging-speed

Hey guys, I've taken the plunge into learning how to use 18650 lithium ion batteries, they are world standard 3.7V rechargeable batteries used in cellphones and Teslas (which use thousands of them). I arrived at this decision since a casual browse of online shopping sites revealed more hits of 18650 battery holders and charge protection circuits than C battery cells, which I was going to originally use. C sized nickel cadmium batteries in particular are hard to find.

I also discovered the ESP32 is a 3.3V chip and can be powered by a single 18650 (in fact there's a version that comes with a battery holder and OLED built in), and two 18650 in series can provide sufficient voltage to the regulator powering the other type of Arduino boards.

Note that these batteries are particular and will be damaged if overcharged or undercharged, hence the necessary (but dirt cheap) protection circuits, picture is a one-cell 1A USB-powered one and a two-celled one that I'll have to somehow hook up to a 9V charger with enough amperage. In the meantime I can charge each individually via USB and I'll put a hardware battery level indicator in my waifubot.

>>793
Forgot to mention the newer version of the TP4056 03962A has OUT + - which you can connect to a load already, since not only does it have overcharge protection (i.e. the older versions) but also undercharge protection.

>>793
>>794
>I also discovered the ESP32 is a 3.3V chip and can be powered by a single 18650
I was just looking into this too recently. While possible, like you say, it seems most people recommend going up to 2S to get 7.4~6V over the discharge cycle, then using a 90+ efficiency switching regulator to bring it down to the 3.3V you need, plus another for 5V or 6V for motors or whatnot. The problem with a 1S direct connection isn't so much the low end of the cycle apparently, the 2.6~3.0V or whatever your particular board cuts off at, but rather the top end, 4.2~3.7V when charging/fully charged. Toasty.

Glad to finally see some non-theoretical battery discussion too, I'm working on my own battery pack and charging setup right now. Want to get the waifu hardware organized and off of my prototyping/research desk. Thinking either 2S2P or 2S3P. Pic related. Basically the same as yours. Same deal with the charger, I've got a 9V 1.3A charger here that's hopefully up the task. The product description says it wants 8.4V but I can regulate down to that.
links:

www.banggood.com/2S-7_4V-8A-Peak-Current-15A-18650-Lithium-Battery-Protection-Board-With-Over-Charge-Protection-p-1259709.html?

www.instructables.com/id/DIY-Professional-18650-Battery-Pack/

So it looks like it will be 2SxP for sure for me then. Turns out the Orange Pi Zero cannot be powered with a regulated 3.3V supply via the 3.3V pins. Apparently those only exist to supply 100mA or so to peripheral sensors and whatnot. So now I've got the amusing situation of the 3.3V Pi and a 3.3V Arduino pro mini clone being powered with 5V (through the RAW pin on the mini). The 2 red FTDI boards have the 3.3V jumper in place too. Now I just got to get everything on a board with double sided tape or something, and the wires routed so I don't fry something with a loose 5V lead.

>>791

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biobattery

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microbial_fuel_cell

I see your standard lithium batteries being chosen, very practical. We also see some theoretical discussion, very interesting. Fuel cells may be worth looking into if you want an option that doesn't require plugging in your partner. I wonder what options will be most cost efficient, but certainly your partner if using lithium batteries can't be more costly to charge than an electric car. There is the matter of energy density however. Will there be room within your partner for sufficient energy packs to run them for a day? You may also want to make your system hot-swappable in case she starts running low on energy during a late evening out.

It may be worth it to study the power systems used for artificial hearts.

>>798
My first response for technical problems like this has always been, "how did biology solve it?"
In this case, it kind of didn't. Sleep isn't a charging cycle, as much as it is a cleaning time. Spend the less-productive night hours squirreled away, healing your body and indexing the day's memories and such. What people actually do to get their energy is eat and digest, and humans only store enough energy for about three days of actually doing things. When someone eats, they are getting all the energy from the storage of whatever they are eating. That's why you eat your own body weight in food in about a month, but it's split into a pound or two three times a day: the thing you're eating also didn't solve the energy storage problem, and you use energy almost as fast as you get it if you're an active person. It's like that all the way down to the plant level, when they use the sun's energy to turn ground-minerals into chemicals they can use.
Considering that billions of years of evolution managed to get energy storage for three days of activity, the best option probably is to have some form of on-site power generator and a steady supply of fuel, as it is much easier to generate power than store it. The reliance on fossil fuels is because they have something like 40 times the energy per kilogram of current batteries. Those biobatteries that >>797 mentioned show great potential if they can be miniaturized to fit inside of a torso.

As for artificial hearts, those work via "inductive coupling" - basically, if you have two conductors set up right, you can wirelessly transfer energy short distances, as in, a few feet at most. The transmission speed decreases very drastically with range. The heart is connected to one of the conductor (along with a rechargeable battery), while outside of the body is a much bigger battery connected to the other conductor. The rechargeable battery inside has only about half an hour of charge, almost all energy goes nonstop from the external battery to the heart. Inductive coupling can be used to transfer energy without breaking the skin, but doesn't have the flexibility to be much better than regular charging in terms of range, and takes up a lot more space, since a bigger conductor means faster power transfer at a much less efficient trade than bigger charging cables.

>>799
Any refinement possible on your '3-day energy storage based on evolution' model to account for motivated humans being able to go 40 days w/o food?

>inductive coupling
what if we made a wireless-charging futon for our robowaifus to sleep on overnights?

>>799
Could use some variety of flow battery if we're looking for in ingestion based model. Your waifu would require input of material in order to keep running however adding this new material would be quick and depending on volume could be rather convenient. As well I find the idea of my waifu having to "eat/drink" in a fashion like a live person to be appealing in some manner.

>>801
>As well I find the idea of my waifu having to "eat/drink" in a fashion like a live person to be appealing in some manner.
There's a social appeal to eating together with friends and loved ones anon. Watch the scene with K and Joi in Bladerunner 2049 and imagine instead that she was eating holographic food along with him. It becomes more charming to my thinking.

Here a long article about types of batteries: https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/types_of_lithium_ion Website itself is worth bookmarking: https://batteryuniversity.com/ Some video about some of the types (incomplete): https://youtu.be/LqgP16JQ24I Lithium-Ceramic: https://youtu.be/kJXRyWQgOY4 BMS diy: https://youtu.be/rT-1gvkFj60 LTO safety: https://youtu.be/XsrRDZxEFQE

>>4391 Excellent. Also, I appreciate the fact you took the time to post in the correct thread. Finding anything after the fact (especially weeks/months later) in off-topic threads can be like the proverbial needle in a haystack. Now, I can find this info from the catalog any day I please.

>related xpost >>4385 >>4386

/waifu energy source general/ What do you think that our waifus will use for energy?And how much energy it needs to use?From my rough calculations if will need about 2kw for the computer plus 500w for the mechanical part(although I am not sure about the last part because I am not very familiar with the mechatronics ). Surely we don't want to use something like an engine because of the noise ,vibrations and the exhaust.The current state of the battery is not suitable for our goals because of the low energy density (energy per square meter).I think that PEM battery will be a good choice because of the lack mechanical parts , huge energy density , the energy is in the form of electricity.The only downside , for now , is the fact that the PEM layer is VERY expensive ,at least for now . What do you think?What kind of energy source our waifus will use? >=== original Batteries & Power thread >>23

>>5080 I don't know what you're talking about, and why you didn't post in the old thread, which would be moved up if someone would post there... Please post your calculations, claims and conclusions there.

Same anon than >>5081. On a second note I get it, it's actually better to have thread about real batteries, power sources and technical details of these, while this here is more of a speculative and broader discussion. Your thinking is of the rails nevertheless, IMO. Two kilowatts for a onboard computer is absurd and I also don't see how to get to 500W usage at the same time for the mechanical parts. Additional to the onboard computers, there will be external brains, wifi connected home servers. But they'll rater use max 500-700 Watts. How much more might depend on how much one is willing to spend. Also if more advanced waifus need a lot of mechanical energy we'll need to use airmuscles and at least one onboard tank. Also, they don't need a huge range, from one room to another is sufficient for most people. They can plugin for some time while sitting and talking, and cuddling on the couch won't need much energy. We might simple have different levels of development in mind. The most simple Robowaifus won't need a lot of energy, if you speculate about very active, smart and mobile ones, it might be more about future technologies. But then computers, batteries and motors might also be more efficient. Direct ethanol fuel cell is my current idea of a source for a longer range.

>>5083 >Also, they don't need a huge range, from one room to another is sufficient for most people. I'm inclined to think having at least two types of operational modes would be a good idea. Namely 'At Home' which as you mentioned would mean little more than room-to-room mobility. Secondly, the 'Lunch in the Neighborhood Park' mode, where she can wear a small battery backpack to give her a couple of hours mobility time away from home (but nearby). Thirdly, a 'Oniichan, you might have to carry me home' mode, where both your robowaifu and you wear battery backpacks. Hers is just 2 or 3 kilos, where yours might be up to 20 kilos in weight.

>>5084 Yeah, the second mode is something I had in mind for a while. The third one is new to me. Interesting. For the second mode I think a a plughole in the back would be perfect, then she could wear a backpack or a belt with batteries. Another one in the foot, so if at home she stands somwhere to pose or dance, then she can be plugged in. Additionally, wireless charging might also be interesting. The one in the foot would also work for boots or motorized skater boots with additional batteries. This would need to be controlled by her computer, so maybe micro usb plugs in the feet can cover both cases, or otherwise we'd need some ethernet as well.

>>5081 OP here. I proposed 2kw because of the recent 30XX GPUs power usage(4*3090+ some power for CPU and etc.).My idea is more in the lines of 2-3 to week autonomous operation.She will be able to travel from town to town on her own

>>5087 >motorized skater boots with additional batteries Yes, having skate boots or a hoverboard or scooter to use during 'Mode 3' travel should help with things. Either or both of you could wear 'stylish' black solar-cell vests as well for trickle charging too ofc. As far as plugs go, I'd think 2 (or possibly 3) USB-C plugs w/ a pair of hi-cap chargers would be sufficient for day to day use. Or the wireless-charging 'neck-pad' like in pic related. > Once you two are finished snuggling, she can top off while you were sound asleep ofc. >>5089 >My idea is more in the lines of 2-3 to week autonomous operation.She will be able to travel from town to town on her own You're going to have to wait for at least a couple of decades (or more) before we have sufficiently good tech for that. No one outsmarts the laws of physics, lad.

>>5089 Then forget about batteries. Some Ethanol fuel cell makes more sense. >>5090 I don't like walking in the sun, also if we already have more batteries then I don't need solar power on top of that. There's a reason why cars use fuel, it's energy dense. There might not be enough Ethanol for huge fleets of cars, but for some robots it should work out.

>>5091 >There's a reason why cars use fuel, it's energy dense. Fair enough. But the idea of living day to day inside my flat with a fuel-burning, fume-emitting robowaifu isn't actually to my tastes. It would be fine for a special-purpose outdoor robot, but not really for a robowaifu companion.

>>5092 It meant it additional to batteries, when they run out she can have some Vodka or so. The remains are water with some acid. She might emmit some harmless gas as well, if so then I forgot about that. https://youtu.be/9Ubhrr5GdQo

>>5097 Watched the vid again, partially. It emits water vapor. Also the one in the vid is very weak, so I have no idea how big this would need to be, so we can have some fembot hicking through the woods, which would be cool but not my highest priority for now. Let's say, if they start using fuel cell for electric bikes, then we'll be using them as well for our waifus...

>>5100 >Let's say, if they start using fuel cell for electric bikes, then we'll be using them as well for our waifus... Makes sense, thanks for the info Anon.

Hydrogen is promoted by some Anons but it's worse than good batteries in terms of conversion efficiency, and much worse in terms of convenience and expense (at least in the scale of a single robowaifu's on-board power systems). But if you're interested in it, here's an interesting post on the topic. https://www.forbes.com/sites/quora/2018/05/08/what-are-the-pros-and-cons-of-using-hydrogen-to-generate-electricity/

This video explains hy hydrogen is suboptimal: https://youtu.be/PH9gvfaufbo - the efficiency is too low. We could even use methan, so normal natural gas for grilling, instead. I still think batteries plus maybe compressed air, plus maybe ethanol >>5097, makes more sense.

I like the idea of eventually getting to the point where our robowaifus can have a "drink" with us and use the ethanol as supplemental fuel. Imagine also being able to analyze the chemical composition and "taste", robowaifu sommliers before we know it. Joking aside, this would be a noteworthy development simply because engaging in drinking makes them seem more normal and less alien and would put others at ease and lighten any awkwardness at dinner parties "Uh.. your wife is an android?" "Gynoid actually, and yes, but she's got an excellent nose for Pinot"

>>13303 Being able to taste seems like a good idea for a robot that prepares food, and a sense of smell is also good for cleaning itself or other things. However, using ethanol as fuel just seems like a pointless idea in general, especially drinks like wine or beer that contain a relatively small amount compared to water, and then there's removal of the other chemicals. I can't really imagine a system where a robot would need to eat or drink unless it could use the materials in it to heal itself. The closest I've imagined to that is drinking distilled water to top-off its coolant, or some other ingredients for sex lube.

>>13321 Using ethanol directly was the initial idea here, not extracting it from wine. It makes totally sense that they would trink different liquids for internal use and for social reasons a well. The social part is OT in this thread however, so if this goes on then please pick another thread (meta?) for that and link back to here as the start, thanks.

>>13326 >for social reasons This is just something I never understood. I don't get how eating or drinking is supposed to be social. I also never really got how watching movies together is social, when my best movie-watching experience is completely alone in a theater, unless it's so bad people openly mock it. As far as energy sources are concerned, my plan is using a simple Atmospheric Motor (https://youtu.be/ENeDkGce5-4) to generate power continuously, figure out how to improve it so you don't need such a long antenna. I already mentioned it in another thread, >>13319 >>13281 my goal for long-term internal energy storage will be in EVO Enabled Vacuum Capacitors (https://youtu.be/TXC7-hfk7xs)

>>13331 lmao this is literally just an old school vacuum tube the most retarded thing I've ever seen, the only people that shill vacuum tubes are cringe guitarists and people who think its still the 80s, normal people dont want giant inefficient pseudo capacitors that break after a single use and capacitors arent even storable, they discharge almost imminently after you cut power, theyre only purpose is to smooth out the current of a real chemical battery which dont produce a static flow

>>13332 You can make a point without being an asshole about it friend.

>>13332 >this is literally just an old school vacuum tube No, they're a bit more complex than that, if you actually bother to read more. If it were just a vacuum there wouldn't have been a patent for it made in 2009: https://patents.google.com/patent/US9042083

>>13342 no its literally just a vacuum tube do you not know how patents work, vacuum tubes are 50+ years old the original patent has long been expired, anyone can now patent their own vacuum tube ( if you are retarded enough to actually do it because you dont understand vacuum tubes have been depreciated every since the invention of electrolytic capacitors or just a scam artists looking to reel in naive ESG investors that seem to be sprouting up like mushrooms )

>>13342 So it's supposed to be a form of supercap? I was considering to use them additionally to batteries as well. The one I know don't replace batteries, though. I might look into your vacuum capacitor. >>13353 >anyone can now patent their own vacuum tube At least in the cases I know patents need to show some novelty. So there would need to be another use case at least, and some nontrivial adjustment.

>>13355 man please learn how patents work once an expired patent on a technology enters public domain all subsequent patents are nothing but trivial adjustments if you really dont see that its just a vacuum tube you need to get vaccinated

>>13357 I know how patents work, to some extent. You wrote nothing to debunk my point. Your definition of novelty is just different, and your manners are bad. >subsequent patents are nothing but trivial adjustments At least a while ago we had some requirements for patents in Germany. Don't know if they changed that. No novelty, no patent. If you define some novelty as trivial or not, doesn't matter. Trivial ideas were not patentable.

>>13362 yeah you dont know how patents work, do you want me to cite the thousands of patents on chocolate bars or the laughable court cases from Mars the grantors use the legal definition of novelty, ie. not currently patented ( in its entirety ), the only difference is patents can not make use of already existing active patents without licensing, you cannot make trivial changes on an active patent and then patent it but in the case of a patent that has already expired and became public like vacuum tubes or chocolate bars, patents based on trivial and highly specific details are allowed since no licensing is needed for the original idea, like with that retard company Mars patenting a caramel coated, peanut chocolate bar, the patents are on the specification not the actual idea of the chocolate bar which has gone into public use and no longer patentable, which is why they lost everytime they tried to sue other companies in patent disputes and my manners arent bad, I call out bullshit when called for

>>13363 >I call out bullshit when called for Aside from the exaggeration by claiming I would know nothing, I was only wondering about the differences of patent system in US. I could claim the same way that you know nothing about patents, since you don't know the requirements in other countries. More importantly, you also wrote nothing on the topic of functionality. If it could work or not. Just calling it a vacuum tube and picking unnecessary fights.

>>13364 >functionality fucking look at it, are you blind, firstly its a vacuum tube, possibly the most inefficient way to make a capacitor because it cant be coiled like a real capacitor, you are limited to a single sheet, using only a single sheet would mean it would need to be gigantic to match the capacitance of a modern coiled capacitor, this is why they stopped being used in the first place second, the design is literally retarded, the anode plate[2] is flush with glass[4], and you want to use this as a capacitor!! do you know what happens to metal when you pass a current through it - it heats up do you know what happens to metal when it heats up - it expands do you know what happens to glass - nothing this thing will break due to thermal stress almost immediately after its first cycle, this is just another fake venture capitalist scam that is designed to siphon investor funding, its not a real product and the company has no intention on making a real product, its a scam, the fact anyone takes this seriously is laughable yet I'm not even surprised in todays age, anyone with any background in electronics however would laugh at this because its so openly retarded >whatever you wrote before functionality I dont even know what you wrote, maybe youre confused between patent rights and trademarks

>>13365 I didn't look at it at all, and I don't know much about vacuum tubes, except that they were used in early computers. >I might look into your vacuum capacitor. That's what I wrote before you started on the claim everyone can patent old technology, which made me wonder. That's all. However I looked onto the reputation of those pushing it and realized it doesn't look good.

>>13366 >However I looked onto the reputation of those pushing it and realized it doesn't look good. What did you find?

>>13369 I only looked briefly, but the guy who pushed it was someone claiming to have found a way to do cold fusion and no one could replicate it. The other technology, atmospheric energy, also strikes me as utter nonsense. If that was a thing, then more serious people would report on it. That aside it's meant to be something like a power plant and has nothing to do with the topic of this thread.

>>13371 The atmospheric electricity thing is really basic. For every meter of difference in altitude, there's a difference of about 100 volts, but the amperage is borderline nothing. The video I posted was mostly about some people making a solid state circuit to step the voltage down to something usable instead of the typical method of running a simple electrostatic motor. If you tried to use the motor to run a generator, there wouldn't be nearly enough torque, so solid state is the best solution. (isn't it always?) It's free energy. It works in every weather condition, to varying degrees, and doesn't need any maintenance or any exotic materials, but really hasn't improved at all in over 100 years, so it's still shitty. I can't really think of any way to improve it that wouldn't also significantly increase the risk of the damn thing getting hit by lightning.

I've been developing and building a direct ethanol/methanol fuel cell. Not specifically for this application, but it would work good I think.

>>14265 Cool. From the scratch or with some kit? If it's your own design, will you publish it on some website or will you make it into a product? How is the patent situation actually? These girls a few years ago got threatended with legal action if they try to make a product out of theirs. Just looked into it for a moment, some of such fuel cells are available for sale. Nice, good to know, but if at all then I'll need it in maybe two or three years or so. If anything, this will be some additional gimmick to a high-end luxury robowaifu, since these current commercial development kits seem to cost 1800$ while providing 400mW at less than a volt, lol. https://www.fuelcellstore.com/dmfc-flex-stak

>>14267 Okay, but this looks much more promising: https://youtu.be/s4T3Oj9w0dk - 50W, 12-24V, needs a bit more than a liter fuel per hour. It's still too big, but not that much to make me loose hope. This guy here also made a small direct ethanol fuel cell. His video is in Italian, but he comments in English as well and seems to know about different options how to get there. He has more explainer videos up. Personally, I just hope for some product in form of a kit. As I wrote above, I'll only need that in two years or so.

I don't know much about fuel cells and I'm not going to pretend that I do, but I realized that one idea I've been thinking about might produce oxygen and hydrogen mixed together with other potentially flammable gases. Rather than flaming-burps or trying to fit a small gas engine in there, is there a way I could use it with a fuel cell, or is burning it my only option?

>>14273 Your idea and question is rather vague. What other gases? Just look up what kinds of fuel cells exist. However, don't try to do everything differently. Don't try to reinvent the wheel. We are only a few guys here. We don't need to invent everything which we might use, let others do that, for other use cases. We only need to find out about it, and then adjust it to our use case if necessary. Batteries will be fine for many use cases. Lightweight waifus won't need much energy. Wheels reduce the amount of power needed to move around. External vehicles are another solution. Heavier waifus might be plugged in, after moving from one place to another. This heavier model will most likely have water and alcohol inside for heat distribution and cleaning, this is why a direct ethanol fuel cell might make sense.

>>14273 Anything that has an emission will damage you or your robowaifu. Ethanol fuel emissions are still poisonous unlike what the retards from earlier claim. They are essentially telling anons that they should let their car engine run while in their living space.

>>14279 >Ethanol fuel emissions are still poisonous There are not gaseous emissions with a direct ethanol fuel cell. The water involved becomes more acidic, if I recall it correctly. So, it's not like a car engine. >>14296 Fascinating. My uncalled advice is, to find something more helpful to work on. It seems to be complex, messy and inefficient.

>>14296 >>14301 Lol. I (quite appropriately, I might add) will be moving your posts into shitposting-central soon. The topic of human (or other biological) digestion systems is certainly an issue to be addressed by the men thinking about this topic, and contributing into our biological thread. Certainly, there are many complex topics that necessarily come up when one decides to intentionally introduce biology into a robowaifu system. And the general topic of management of microbiological infestations presence on/within our robowaifus is something serious that needs to be addressed by very smart men here as well. Obviously her master's sanitation will be an issue for a robowaifu, and perhaps you'd be able to contribute to the protocols involved with reigning-in issues there? But, plainly, these posts indicates you'll be far more comfortable discussing this topic generally & specifically from within the warm, comforting environs of our mini-/b/, well-suited to this topic in general. Maybe from there you can explain effectively for us all what the directors who created these humorous mangos/animus that involve the purely-non-living robowaifus drinking/eating were thinking? :^)

>>14302 The only reason I even brought it up was because of >>14277 asking what other gases would be involved because I was curious about burning gases for power. I already mentioned the electrolysis creating hydrogen and oxygen, regular humid air, hydrogen chloride, carbon monoxide, and presumably methane. I explained the process I was thinking about because genuinely don't know what other gases might be produced. If I did go through with this, I have some ideas of burning the gas to produce heat, and converting the heat into power. (another reason for the circulatory system) If there's any ideas for a more direct method of getting power, I'd like to hear it.

>>14304 yes, the infamous holzgas generator this was popular in vehicles back in the 40s due to war rationing you can find it mentioned in the nuremburg trials as this was (((their))) official story for decades before they abandoned that story and went with the insecticide zyklon b after people forgot what delousing was

>>14305 Or just a regular modern catalytic converter. I already assumed that the guy who wanted to make an ethanol fuel cell was also going to use a catalyst to deal with the carbon monoxide and other fumes, so I didn't think what I was saying was that weird.

>>14304 Heh, I'm simply joking about the topic itself--as portrayed by your posts. Very /b/-tropic. >If there's any ideas for a more direct method of getting power, I'd like to hear it. I would suggest that not only are electro-mechanical systems based on electrical motors significantly more efficient at delivering Watts directly where they are needed, but direct cabling for electricity straight into the robowaifu is a pretty direct method of getting direct current directly into the system. This form of directly getting power into a robot is still fairly commonplace in robo-prototyping labs. Our direct goal ofc, is to directly place direct-current batteries directly near our direct-current electrical motors, afaict. :^)

>>14302 This whole recent discussion seem to be based on BS. This questionable claim >>14265 starting it, was never fleshed out. - That's already suspicious - Then this seems to be trolling by acting to be stupid or new: >>14273 and >>14279 - And here >>14305 we're back to the Nazis. I made the more productive postings here, and still wouldn't care if the whole discussion would get moved over into the Basement. The biology thread doesn't deserve this nonsense. Discussion on digestion as an option would be fine, but it's a very awkward and special way to go, unless you want to live in a dark rainforest and having your waifu eating plants and animals. Based on that, discusions on that topic should imo generally getting cut down to the more serious appearing postings.

>>14307 I already made the only contribution I have to make on the subject of energy storage here >>5080 and I'm not sure if I mentioned it elsewhere, but I once saw a low-resolution concept digital camera that used solar cells. As far as long-term power storage goes, you can't really get much better than generic lead-acid when they're used right.

>>791 This is going to be hilarious in application but it is entirely possible to turn used vegetable oil, rapeseed oil and canola oil into diesel fuel. I'm not sure how that'd work outside of a combustion engine but if we're talking about fuel from food that's the closest I can think of next to giving them a natural "septic tank" style stomach that comes complete with a micro biome and some sort of way to extract the energy out of it like a real stomach.

>>14320 >it is entirely possible to turn used vegetable oil, rapeseed oil and canola oil into diesel fuel Those things are also flammable entirely on their own, we typically don't use them as fuel because they're not as energy dense. I think it makes more sense to try to use them as they are to produce energy than to take up more space with a microbrewery to convert them to another fuel.

>>14320 >Plant oil >some sort of way to extract the energy out of it Please just stop. There's nothing to improve or resolve here. Otherwise, buy some lab equipment on Ebay and go to work, or at least provide some idea how this is going to work and a reason why it is better than the existing alternatives

>>13381 wouldn't lightning just give you more free energy?

>>19006 1.21 jiggawatts to be exact

crosspost: >>19631 (Carrington event, solar storm)

I like this battery calculator: https://power-calculation.com/battery-storage-calculator.php and have an eye on these batteries: https://www.ecolithiumbattery.com/product/9ah-lto-battery/ but we'll see (context: https://www.ecolithiumbattery.com/lto-battery/ ). One 8318 motor works with 6-12S, which refers to 6 to 12 LiPO batteries, which have a higher voltage. So, I might need at least 6 LTOs (per motor, one per leg), though they would provide more Ampere than I need. They would add 3.5 kg to my waifu's body. The volume would be more than 20x87 cm, which I could of course distribute. I might prefer to go with a voltage booster, or maybe I find a bit smaller ones, since they would give me freaking 90A. I didn't even look for the costs, but don't suspect it would be less than 1.5-2k for the batteries alone.

>>23781 Excellent, thanks for the calculator link NoidoDev.

Avoiding fraudulent claims about (LiPo) battery charging power and speed: https://youtu.be/Rdu6dODqSiY https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?1767093-Battery-Load-Test-Comparisons These packs are rather for RC cars, seem to be used to draw all their power in a very short period of time. So, these specific packs might not be very useful in many case to put into a robowaifu, but the information around the marketing exaggerations and such might be generally useful.

>>23829 Thanks NoidoDev. Yep scammery is afoot in the battery industries, for sure. Well-needed information. >=== -minor edit

Here's an excellent place to buy batteries. I heard about them from people running Lithium batteries for sailboat motors. https://batteryhookup.com/ One set that I bought was this one, This ONLY shows the busbar kit that holds the batteries. When I bought them they had batteries in them. https://batteryhookup.com/products/kit-only-6000w-12v-48ah-614wh-busbar-holders?_pos=5&_sid=8539b8858&_ss=r Warning at the site they are now saying some of these, not necessarily from them, are seconds or do not meet specs. Came with 24v 48ah 1.23kWh Lifepo4 - 48 HEADWAY CELLS @ $183/kWh for $224 total . I planned on using it for truck battery but changed my mind because I wasn't 100% positive the normal charging would not overcharge. The volume of it is small enough to fit in a rib cage. I'll go over what I think it can do after I note the human power needed. Here's a reference to power needed by humans https://hypertextbook.com/facts/2003/WeiLiangMok.shtml In fact a robowaifu will need less because it doesn't need to keep warm, but...we will want it warm so likely it will be the same. So roughly 100-125W for normal stuff and with active movement. Humans can put out 400W in spurts and athletes can put out big brief spurts of maybe 1,000W but very brief. Call it 400W for Olympic athlete type power. The reason I point that out is that for robocare givers they will need to lift humans so these 400W or slightly better power spurts will be needed to sell them to nursing home type situations. The battery pack I have is 1.23kWh. So using the numbers above I think you could easily get 12 hours of activity out this one battery pack. Likely much more because it doesn't need to always be moving around. These cells, if they prove to be what they are advertised as, would be perfect for robowaifus. They are designed to put out very high peak amperage. That's exactly what we need. https://batteryhookup.com/products/used-headway-38120-hp-3-2v-8ah-lifepo4-battery?_pos=3&_sid=8539b8858&_ss=r These things put out 200A DISCHARGE so let's say we get 8 at $6.99USD each($56) in series. We then have peak power of 4,800Watts. More realistically we could get 1/2 that but that's still 2,400W. Plenty. Mucho plenty and you get 8AH per cell. So 24V x 8Ah gives us 192 Whrs of power. Let's say you move it around you could easily get a couple hours of strong vigorous work out of it before it needs a charge. At a lower rate you could get more. Get four sets of these at $224 and you easily have power for a day with maybe brief charges for super strong activity. Just hanging around with a little movement I bet you could get 24 hours with these. Now the link I gave on human power is high. I have other notes that say, "...A labourer over the course of an eight-hour day can sustain an average output of about 75 watts; higher power levels can be achieved for short intervals and by athletes..." I can't remember where I got that from, so I don't have the link. And "I think" maybe it's only counting the actual work. Not the power needed for metabolism to keep the body warm. That might readily account for the 100-120W figure for total energy. Notice that the lower figure means you can get a lot of work out of the robowaifu if you neglect body heating. So cleaning the house and stuff like that could be very efficient. Furthermore if it remained plugged in for heat while you were away the smaller batteries power could last a long time. Here's a few other "blurb" figures I saved on power for humans https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skeletal_muscle Vertebrate muscle typically produces approximately 25–33 N (5.6–7.4 lbf) of force per square centimeter of muscle cross-sectional area when isometric and at optimal length For humans,"...According to our data table the body uses 685 W to climb stairs..." (I think this is high but I saved it and it might be a total for climbing all the stairs) "What do we need for power to run these things? Notice that a average human can only produce about 200 Watts or so of power over a good bit of time with world class athletes at about 400 watts but you can get much higher brief spurts." Anyways those are notes I saved in a file to give me rough ideas on what is needed. I got these searching all over for human power.

>>24582 Thanks, 200A discharge sounds insane. Did you buy something there? Personally, I will use LTO's not LiPo, at least internally. But I found this here: >The latest Sony VTC6 18650 3000mAh 15A 3.6V is a highly rated rechargeable battery from a renowned manufacturer, perfect to use in VV/VW Mods and other high power configurations. It features 3000mAh capacity and constructed with Hi-Drain capability for safety with flat top design, often compare to LG HG2 as it is underrated with 15A. Found via artbybot: https://youtu.be/0R2wVuhLTXw So there seem to be batteries with a "Hi-Drain capability", which could be an important factor to look for.

>>24582 Excellent information, Grommet. Thanks! :^) >In fact a robowaifu will need less because it doesn't need to keep warm In fact waste heat is a significant problem to solve for our robowaifus. We certainly don't need to be intentionally adding more of it in haha. :^) >>24588 >200A discharge sounds insane This. Best to keep an appropriately-rated fire extinguisher handy if this an accurate measurement. >=== -add 'heat' cmnts -prose edit

>>24588 >200A discharge sounds insane. Did you buy something there? Yes I bought the "24v 48ah 1.23kWh Lifepo4 - 48 HEADWAY CELLS @ $183/kWh for $224 total" and haven't done a damn thing with it. Now it's Chinese so the 200A...well maybe but, likely not. Maybe on a good day in the freezer. (note that many Chinese branded stuff is made on US or European assembly lines and are perfectly fine. On the other hand...it's Chinese with all the fakery implied)They are pull outs from stationary interrupt power supplies so they will put out a great deal of amperage. If you buy car batteries or as I think you noted, drone batteries you can get these high burst of power. In our case the requirements are less because power burst will only be needed for very short time periods. Far less than cars or drones. Just making up a number to be safe. I think if any battery pack we bought we limited the current draw to 1/2 rated output we would likely be good and not stress the batteries. 1/4 would be even better. Even if these batteries are mostly used they are super cheap for what they are and with our weak requirements compared to what they were used for I expect you could get a lot of use out of them. When they replace these it's from equipment that HAS to work. So they replace them far sooner than when they will stop functioning. Likely they will slowly lose function and still be plenty for what we need. It may very well be that some combination of high capacity supercapacitors, then batteries could do a great job for all electric. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supercapacitor I decided to put some real world numbers on this. I found on ebay a super-capacitor 13.5V12F 13.5V 12F Super Farad Capacitor Module Kit DIY Power Supply($20USD) I found a calculator that calculates watt-hours from C and volt here. https://lucidar.me/en/electronics/online-farad-to-watt-hour-converter/ For the above I got 0.24 W-h but we only need seconds of power so multiply by 60 to get minutes, then by 60 to get seconds 0.24 x 60 x 60 = 864W-sec (864 watts for one second) Note this is total charge and the voltage will drop as the capacitor discharges so you could only count on 1/2 or 1/4 of this total power as the voltage would drop, losing the force you can operate at. So this $20 pack of capacitors could give you roughly a 400W boost for a second. If you are lifting a person or something heavy, 400W is a lot. One horsepower is 776W and a horse is strong and HP rating are based on big strong horses. If we maybe have a couple of these packs at $40 it should take care of all our lifting needs with regular batteries doing the rest at the expense of some electronic extras to limit the current flow from the batteries to the supercapacitors. As the capacitor drew down voltage the batteries would start being the major source of power so we would have to limit them to the batteries capacity in amperage to keep from damaging the batteries. > Personally, I will use LTO's from what little I know about them they look super impressive but pricey.

>>24606 >I think if any battery pack we bought we limited the current draw to 1/2 rated output we would likely be good and not stress the batteries. 1/4 would be even better. Great point Anon. 'Better safe than sorry' they always tell me. :^) BTW, this is probably a good rule of thumb to follow for basically every area of designed capacity for a robowaifu's systems. We can always dail it in better once prototypes are up and running & tested thoroughly.

Potential improvements in driving battery costs down? www.zerohedge.com/markets/mxene-related-stocks-soar-after-korean-scientists-claim-breakthrough-new-mass-production

https://www.nextbigfuture.com/2023/08/catl-m3p-battery-is-sodium-ion-chemistry-catl-tsla.html They have these sodium batteries right now for cars. They are mixing them with lithium-ion for peak current as sodium doesn't push as much. Eventually the price of these has to plummet. The active material is salt. I guess it depends on how well they have patented it and if someone can make something that gets around their patents. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium-ion_battery The guy that invented the lithium-ion battery in it's present form and made it a contender has, he says, a solid state battery that can use potassium, sodium or lithium and gets high power output and low weight. Now people are skeptical, but most people who know about such things said that if it was anyone else they wouldn't believe it but him, he's the Master and a major genius at batteries so they can hardly say they know he hasn't done it. Now this was a good while ago so I don't know what happened with that.

>>24695 Neat. Thanks Grommet! Let's hope your prediction is correct. Salt is clearly a very abundant, cheap material to use in manufacturing. If it can prove to be a reliable source of energy storage in an economical form, then that would change many things. Cheers. :^)

I've been looking at different power solutions. The easiest is lithium ion batteries. I mean it's most convenient and the electronics to deal with them are prevalent. But compare them to other tech and, they suck. Really bad. Expensive, they suck. Laying out the requirements. Somewhere on the board, can't find the link, I did a quick, very dirty, cost accounting. I did save the numbers though. ""...Normal human metabolism produces heat at a basal metabolic rate of around 80 watts..." (Note: Heat not work.) "...Over an 8-hour work shift, an average, healthy, well-fed and motivated manual laborer may sustain an output of around 75 watts of power...." "...During a bicycle race, an elite cyclist can produce close to 400 watts of mechanical power over an hour and in short bursts over double that—1000 to 1100 watts.... An adult of good fitness is more likely to average between 50 and 150 watts for an hour of vigorous exercise. Athlete human performance peak power, but only for seconds, 2,000Watts..." For reference a good horse working at a good constant rate works at 746 Watts. Let's say you need 400 watts for 2 hours a day then normal moving about at 100 Watts a hour with 7 hours for recharge at zero watts, We need 2 x 400W/h + 17 x 100W/h = 800w/h + 1,700W/h = 2,500W/h per day Some battery prices found on ebay at random. SANYO UR18650ZTA Li-ion batteries SANYO, 11 Wh, 3000 mAh, 3.7V maximum discharge rate of these batteries is 5.8A Total batteries needed at above rate = 2,500W/h per day/11.1W/h per battery = 225 batteries, @ $20 for ten = $450.45" So batteries are THE BIGGEST cost driver, I believe. I think there's a good possibility we can drive down the cost of actuators with a lot of thought and some experimentation. Especially if we use switched reluctance type actuators because they are only iron and some copper wire, and MOSFET drivers for these are super cheap. Look at the picture I uploaded and look at the energy density of Li-ion. Way, way, way down on the bottom left at damn near nothing. Pathetic. I've been looking at ethanol fuel cells. And I thought li-ion was expensive! These things are outrageous and I see no quick way anyone has found to do much better. Is there a better way? Maybe.? I had an idea. I'm not the only one that has this idea, sort of, because others were asking somewhat the same sort of thing. NASA even has a sort of program on it. Tiny jet engines. HyTEC https://www.nasa.gov/aeroresearch/updates-from-nasas-hytec-engine-core-project-show-progress I think there's a better way though. They want something very much like a regular jet engine but smaller. Now if you go back to Elon Musk ideas one of his principles is, Step one: Make the requirements less dumb So we're not trying to make some sophisticated turbine. We just want some cheap power. And it doesn't have to be super light weight. So we are going to have to have some batteries and likely some super capacitors for small period, maybe 2-4 sec. peak power. Not a problem. Affordable for short peak power but the long term stuff, expensive. What if we drove the compressor of the turbine with an electric motor instead of with a turbine that is in the hot section of the engine. Normal jet engines have a fan blown by the burning fuel connected with a shaft or gears to run the compressor. Very complicated. Very expensive. So now we only have thrust from the burning fuel. Now let's simplify this even more. Make the exhaust a rocket motor. Rockets are very efficient. So you make a nozzle and then connect to a rotating bearing and thrust it in a circle and it is connected to a generator. So it makes power to charge the batteries and run the compressor. If we use ethanol look at the stupendous amount of energy from burning ethanol compared to Li-ion batteries. Li-ion is something like 1 M-joule per liter and 1 M-joule/Kg. Pitiful. Ethanol is way more, around 25 times higher at 25MJoules/liter and 30Mjoules/Kg. Now here's where Musk requirements idea comes in. We could make a perfectly shit, very inefficient jet engine. Practically worthless and still whip the shit out of Li-ion efficiency and cost. At 5% efficiency we still get to 1.25Mj/liter. Beating the batteries. Exactly the sort of thing I'm talking about has been done before. They used tip jets to spin a huge rotor for a gyroplane. It wasn't efficient but only worked for a short time to take off. They could have made this work but it was after WWII. The British were broke and killed it before they could work out some problems they had. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fairey_Rotodyne Anyways just an idea. Of course getting this to work would be much harder than just hooking up some batteries. But long term it would be extremely cheap. Only a small amount of the jet would need expensive stainless steel, which is not all that expensive, and would be less than the amount in an aluminium drink can.

>>24697 how much engi time do you think it would take to develop this to a satisfactory level? and how loud is supposed to be the final result?, cause turbines arez rarely quiet

>>14332 can't we just make the microbrewery external, like a charging station or something?

>>24698 >how much engi time do you think it would take to develop this to a satisfactory level? I don't know but people are certainly doing it. This is just one. There's many. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQ7gArNmqK0 https://hackaday.com/2018/12/07/building-the-worlds-smallest-jet-turbine-by-hand/

Here's three links to books on DIY jet engines http://libgen.rs/book/index.php?md5=BBAA78E1D9814AA5B5B43EDA664A5132 http://libgen.rs/book/index.php?md5=9F324133ADF25B26B34969334D83578D http://libgen.rs/book/index.php?md5=8C7F3B5D83BCF6D3A85C5091CC6C1665

>>24697 >Total batteries needed at above rate = 2,500W/h per day/11.1W/h per battery = 225 batteries, @ $20 for ten = $450.45" Heh, that's rather a surprising figure. Good investigative work Grommet. >So batteries are THE BIGGEST cost driver, I believe. Actually, it's the actuators. By far since we're planning to give the software -- certainly the most expensive 'part' in the end -- away for free. We are all probably looking at ~US$5K+ for them in a moderate setup for a life-sized (145cm+) robowaifu r/n. This is the primary impetus behind the more sophisticated design approaches that Kiwi and myself are attempting here. To wit: keep the skeletal, shell, and [everything else]'s mass down, and you can (potentially) significantly reduce the actuation power needed to motivate the dynamics of your robowaifu's systems (make her move) : (>>4313). This could effectively cut the actuation costs down by half (or more), all the while making her more nimble and pleasing, humanly-speaking. This cost factor is also my own primary motivator for attempting to devise opensauce actuator winding-systems so Anon can create his own, saving even more on costs (with scale). While I really appreciate your points Anon, simply put I don't think there are any other reasonable alternatives to us for mobile power contained within our robowaifu's bodies than batteries. If that's in fact the case, then the onus is on us all to devise the best compromise between cost+weight+power-density+QoL-aesthetics . R/n that best compromise means Li-ion batteries. Hopefully, better, lighter, cheaper solutions will be discovered in the future but for now I believe that's our best choice hands-down. Thankfully, scientists & engineers the world over currently are aggressively pursuing research into newer electrical power storage systems. So who knows? We may see some major breakthroughs soon. Thanks for these good posts and for all your creative, out-of-the-box thinking Anon! >"Somewhere on the board, can't find the link, I did a quick, very dirty, cost accounting." BTW, if you can think of good keywords then you might use Waifusearch (>>8678) to help you find them? Cheers. :^) >=== -prose edit

>>24701 So cool. I wish I'd had these as a child haha! :D

>>24699 >can't we just make the microbrewery external, like a charging station or something? Yes I think that's on-point Anon. Most any kind of reasonable 'power-generation system' for our robowaifus needs to be external. This is very much in line with the same reasons that any future artifical womb systems will also need to be so, such as tabletop systems. > pic related

>>24708 >pic related

You guys exaggerate the power needs of this thing really. Raspberry pi and servo motors are like around 5 volts for the mini ones ones which is like 1 lithium battery and 1 regular battery. The big motors is 12 volts each maybe. 3 lithium batteries each and so on. It's not a big deal. We'll see how many batteries are needed in the end. >But they won't last long Doesn't matter it's supposed to be a house bot for the most part.

>>24709 Well-played. :DDD >>24711 >You guys exaggerate the power needs of this thing really. I'm not really trying to debate you here Anon -- believe me, I'd be ecstatic if you can prove us all wrong -- but I think the reality of this situation is that we are not only not exaggerating the power requirements... we're actually low-balling them out of optimistic hope! :^) Our optimism is based on the efforts to minimize the mass of everything. By doing this we significantly reduce the so-called 'thrown-weight' (and therefore the inertial moments) of the 'levers' that constitute a robowaifu's arms, legs, &tc. Dear Kibo-chan (>>24608), and Poppy (>>24531) are somewhat reasonable approaches today specifically because they are smol (that is, short) and lightweight. This is just the same approach I mean to take advantage of for Sumomo-chan (>>14409) also. Well and good, such as they are (ie, headpat daughterus). But once we begin scaling robowaifu designs up to life-sized dimensions (145cm+) then strange things begin happening with the physics involved. This phenomenon is known as the Square-Cube Law [1], and has been well-understood for centuries. >tl;dr The power (Amps, not Volts) required to make a fully-loaded, realworld robowaifu move around, all day erry day, is probably more than you may think r/n Anon. But together I hope we'll all find a way to greatly reduce this requirement. May God give us good success with that, and every other one of the many dozens of things that all need to be solved here! Cheers. :^) 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Square%E2%80%93cube_law >=== -patch crosslinks -prose edit

>>24714 Oh no you're right. Bard says a high torque 12v motor might require a 100 ah battery which are quiet different... Something like this per big motor maybe. I don't like relying on bard though, it often times gives the wrong answer. If someone here knows how many ah is required to power a high torque 12 volts motor for say 6 hours that'd be great and again I got the 12 volts estimate from bard too so...

>>24714 >we're actually low-balling them out of optimistic hope! :^) I would have to agree. Even if our wildest dreams about the ability of AI to become faster (lees power needed) you're still going to need a reasonably fast processor to have a life like waifu. That's what I'm measuring. Not something that can walk a few feet and lay around. Even if it lays around, if you want to talk to it or have it pay attention...fast mobile processors are running at 35-40 Watts and reasonable desktops at 80-150 watts. It's a lot of power. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_CPU_power_dissipation_figures

>>24717 >how many ah is required to power a high torque 12 volts motor for say 6 hours that'd be great and again I got the 12 volts estimate from bard too so... There are formulas for that you can find on the web and probably in this thread. It depends on what you mean by "high torque 12 volts motor". Also, it depends on the workload. Six hours with barely any load, just changing positions on a coach, is not the same as her walking around using it. It's a mistake to assume you could build a waifu using that for six freaking hours under full load. My target is 20-30 minutes under full load, maybe just 10-15 minutes. Of course sitting around or doing less would make the power last much longer. Related: >>23782 >>23781

>>24717 just look up the wattage of the engine eg. a 12v 240w engine requires 20a (w=va) per hour if the battery is 12v 100ah it would last 5h ( ah/a )

>>24705 >>So batteries are THE BIGGEST cost driver, I believe. Actually, it's the actuators. By far. We are all probably looking at ~US$5K+ I agree if you say,"let's buy a bunch of motors off the shelf and run our waifu with it right now", but looking at the material cost and building them ourselves I think we can go much lower. Way lower. Vastly lower. I do not have this all worked out but I have some ideas. I think it will be a good while before I can flesh them out. It will take test. One idea I had is for water hydraulics. Now I have blasted hydraulics to death but...there may be a way to get around the high cost of the control valves. Maybe. My ideas right now are so incomplete that it would futile to talk about it. I would get a ton of questions...I can not answer. If you notice I have some whacked ideas and may be wrong but I can usually answer criticisms when I post my ideas. There is some material, logical thought behind them. Maybe some, or a lot, of them are not actionable but I can usually make a case for what I think up. I'm not there yet on actuators yet but I'm thinking on it. The key is the material cost of these things is way lower than what they are selling them for. We must think a better way to arrange them to lower cost. > I don't think there are any other reasonable alternatives to us for mobile power contained within our robowaifu's bodies than batteries. Yes I see that. The ideas for lower cost power mostly reside with the idea that you could get a waifu for $2,000-3,000 dollars. You can't do that with batteries I don't think and have much more than what you can buy in China now. Just a big doll. So when I postulate these wild ass ideas it's only because I'm trying to think of a way around these battery prices. "Hope springs eternal." and it doesn't hurt to think about it.

>>24717 > If someone here knows how many ah is required to power a high torque 12 volts motor for say 6 hours that'd be great I have a few, very rough, estimates on power needed for lifting things and then extrapolated to all day in the actuator thread. Here's one, but ignore my hate of hydraulics, I may have changed my mind on that due to cost. Keep in mind I over estimated a bit because the processor alone will use substantial power any time it moves, talks or listens. >>12014 >>12140 I did some rough cost accounting here and came up with $10,846 for parts alone. It's too high to be profitable for individuals to buy. As has been said before I bet the break point is around $2,000-3,000 with $2.000 being far more desirable. So to make this really work you might need a parts cost of half that or less. Difficult. >>13408 One more that talks about forces needed and what that portends for the amount of power. >>13229 My cost are based on something that would follow simple directions like a dog. Train for your voice for a hour or so. Then have it do stuff like,"move over here", "pick that up", "follow me", "get me a beer". And the always popular,"go to the bedroom". I think if the above could be done for $2,000-3,000 they would sell fairly well. People would take into account the price. Sell upgrades, "orifices" .for maybe $200-300, (I don't think they should be built in for legal and propaganda reasons but be easy to add), and better software and hardware. I think it would at least have to move around without constantly falling over in built areas, like sidewalks, stairs, in houses and do a a little fetching. I think people would be happy with that as a start.

was looking at old crystal radios and it made me think the fact were saturated with so much emf waves might be useful in the future, these early radios didnt use an electricity, not directly at least, the radio waves themselves provided enough electricity to power the speaker so hypothetically you could be constantly charging the battery so long as theres emf waves like from your neighbors wifi, only thing is the power is so small so no idea how your going to push it into a battery that already has a charge pushing back

Though it's a bit antithetical to this thread, I have to ask: do we really need batteries right now? I've been mulling over the issue on my own time, and it seems that there really isn't any good solution to the mobile power problem at this time. But I don't think we need a solution, at least not straight away. Consider this: what would do with your wife's theoretical mobility if you had her immediately? Not five years from now, but right now. Realistically, there isn't a whole lot she can do outside the house. With our current level of technology, she won't be agile enough to walk on stairs, much less go on nature walks with you. With our current social situation, she really shouldn't be out in public. I believe that the limited benefit of batteries simply doesn't outweigh the cost or added engineering complexity right now. Plus, I can't imagine any of us are really going to stick with the V1 design of our wives forever. Parts break down and better parts release to market, there are many reasons to upgrade in the future. Thus, I think that the battery question should be shelved for the time being. The issue can be revisited in a few years when the technology gets a bit better (or cheaper, if nothing else). As for right now, a cable harness will do the job of delivering power for far cheaper. If you keep her brains in a server (which I will) you can add ethernet cables to the harness to facilitate cheaper, lower latency connections between her controllers and the server compared to WiFi.

This will help determine battery characteristics for a mobile robot. If she walks, triple the power required. https://community.robotshop.com/blog/show/drive-motor-sizing-tool

>>24725 >do we really need batteries right now? ...there isn't a whole lot she can do outside the house That's a good point. Could also see it as, use very limited battery power now with frequent recharge if not plugged in.

>>24722 >I think we can go much lower. Way lower. Vastly lower. I sure hope so Anon! In fact, I'm counting on it. :^) >>24725 You make some good points Anon. I'll give this some serious consideration. >>24732 Thanks!

Please don't take the threat of Li-Ion explosions/fires lightly, Anon. nitter.net/roller2426/status/1572892393791455232 nitter.net/JimNotBob/status/1456705971993169924 >=== -add 2nd link

News: Yuge Li ore deposit in Burgerland discovered, possibly the largest found on Earth so far. www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.adh8183 nypost.com/2023/09/11/lithium-deposit-found-in-us-mcdermitt-caldera/ >=== -add 2nd link -minor edit

>>25325 Old news, but thanks for the reminder. IF I use Li-Ion at all, then in something like additional belts as external source. The right way to deal with such a fire seems to be wet sand, btw. Difficult in case of a bus, but it should work with a smaller device.

>>14332 >we typically don't use them as fuel because they're not as energy dense We don't use them cause they cost more per liter than gasoline/diesel and used oil is considered worthless waste; same applies for etanol.

Just in case anyone still wants to use Hydrogen to power a robowaifu and needs to make it, here seems to be a good way to do so: https://youtu.be/oIWgzVaGn4Y

>>28681 DIY blimps for robowaifus when? :D

Small engines might be an option for robots which are supposed to go some range outside of the home. Not very important, but good to keep in mind. I first wanted to post this in the actuator thread >>27021, but they way I think about it is to use this as a generator for electricity. So it would be a backup generator which could be recharged fast by making the robot take in some fuel. In that case it seems to be normal fuel, in alternative cases it might be some kind of alcohol like ethanol. > I Run the Smallest Rotary Wankel Engine in the World to see if it actually starts and runs then I try and hit the engine's Maximum Rpm, Engine is a Toyan RS-S100 Single Rotor Wankel Rotary Engine. >This engine is so small it's almost unbelievable to me that it runs at all but it does. > once things, especially engines or machines get this small it becomes very difficult to maintain the tight tolerances needed to have a well-running machine, but to my surprise, the engine ran very well. > Link to Newest Version of the Miniature Rotary Engine at Engine DIY: https://bit.ly/WpMiniRotaryEngine https://youtu.be/6OFtGntbS8U

>>28697 Very cool idea Noido Dev! So, I could see our robowaifus wearing a randoseru-like backpack that's her 'long-range energy gen mobile pack' . >=== -sp edit

Two words. Atomic slug. Advantages. She stays warm. Very warm. Disadvantages. Your arms fall off and she has to chew your food for you.

>>28697 Imagine pic-related happening sufficiently-fast to turn that little crankshaft at 30K RPMs. > >via our neighbors at /late/

>>28724 btw the Mazda ones eat their own triangles at 10k-11k rpm... I doubt if the 787Bs touched 12k to still get through the 24 hours. I'm sure smaller sorts have lower rotating mass and things, but the point is that having turbines /= RPMs necessarily. Also, nobody is going to want to share an enclosed space with a smog rotor. You're really talking about an outdoors-only device by that point. Maybe try hydrogen or something idk If you're interested in outdoors miniature engines and things there's a man who's made a prototype sterling engine out of a Chrysler air conditioning compressor, his channel is called kirkolator1. I'm not sure if he ever reached viability with his project or not, but the point was that any unrefined "fuel oil" could work just the same as the propane he was utilising.

>>28734 >Also, nobody is going to want to share an enclosed space with a smog rotor. You're really talking about an outdoors-only device by that point. I wrote that I meant it for outside. That said, if the noise was dampened by the body and the exhaust captured or filtered, then letting it run for a few minutes might be okay in some edge cases, e.g. lifting something heavy or climbing stairs. >Maybe try hydrogen or something idk Even if, then this conventional fuel engine is worth mentioning. I don't try anything about this anytime soon, I just wanted to have it in mind as an option. Hydrogen is hard to store and not very energy dense, btw. Ethanol would be quite interesting. At the end of the day, whatever works for the specific use case is the right choice. This is meant as an option, and needs to be as small and light as possible, durable and with easy access to fuel. > interested in outdoors miniature engines and things there's a man who's made a prototype sterling engine This could be generally interesting, but I didn't even look if there was a Sterling engine for this use case, because I think they tend to be bigger. If anything then it would need to be very small and maybe could be used with steam. A waifu could gather sunlight with heatpipes under the skin and create steam and then use that to run the engine. Once again, this would only be for outside. More like this one: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/YKrdfjO9SBg - so if it is not needed then the additional wheight won't matter, also the smaller it is the better we can dampen the noise.

So after years I am first person to point out LiFePO4 (lithium iron phosphate) batteries are safer than lithium ion? They dont heat up as much and are more difficult to explode. They also are better value for the cost in the long term because they do not lose capacity as fast. Part of the reason being they are able to operate lower voltages. But down side is they are heavier and less energy dense. Under development are NaFePO batteries, which likely would be cheaper if they ever come around and are supposed to perform better than current sodium ion batteries unless I had misread.

>>800 >40 days w/o food this is a really interesting phenomenon that i'm not sure will be able to be replicated in machines. my best guess is that the body does some incredible optimization after a while, so you spend energy a lot less than usual

>>30197 that and beer lol, its why monasteries have a reputation for brewing because of lent

>>30199 what does beer have to do with lent? do worshippers go on a beer fast or smth?

>>30200 the monks in medieval europe started it because it didnt count as food so it didnt break your fast, they then got the reputation because they were brewing the strongest beers out of necessity

>>30201 how do you mean "necessity"? does stronger beer help you stave off hunger?

>>30202 Bread was originally invented as a way to store beer. High enough concentration of grains and it becomes liquid bread.

>>30212 >a way to store beer today i found out...

>>30171 >LiFePO4 (lithium iron phosphate) batteries are safer than lithium ion I was mentioning LTOs instead, for years. Maybe LiFePO4 wasn't mentioned explicitly, but sites and channels where these batteries are talked about were certainly mentioned at some point. Or it was assumed people knew about it, or would find out when they'll need to. It might also a cause of going for the extremes, LiFePO4 is in the middle between lithium ion and LTOs. In my case, my argument is the number of loading cycles which speaks for LTOs, which is of course more important for a waifu body where the batteries are hard to access. Yes, maybe in a belt, boots or other external battery holders like mentioned in >>25328 lithium iron phosphate might be a better alternative.

This might be a moot point, but has anyone considered removing the computation from the machine body and treating it like a client-server relationship, where the body sends and recieves signals to the "brain"/server?

>>30249 I've been mentioning LiFePO4 for years. I even discussed charging them.

>>30252 I'll iterate; by having a low power client sending signals to a larger computer that is connected to power, there should not be too much of an issue for battery power; any room the computer would fit inside would be able to be used for space for a battery.

>>30253 I see. I was just meaning in this thread specifically I didn't see it mentioned. >>30249 Looking up LTO and it seems a lot more expensive and doesnt necessarily last as long as LiFeOP4. Why do you think you need direct access to the battery rather than some sort of charging port that can be covered? You only need access if you were hotswapping batteries or the battery is dead and wont charge. If you go hotswapping route charge time doesnt matter.

>>30252 >anyone considered removing the computation from the machine body and treating it like a client-server relationship Yes, this is one of the most important epiphany to have. That the compute doesn't necessarily need to happen in the body, it could be some external server. That said, it would be nice to do as much as possible internally. >>30253 Yeah, I didn't remember the details but wanted to communicate that it's not big news to us. Anyone looking into battery comparisons would've come across it, even if it wasn't mentioned, or even just not in this thread here. >>30261 I guess this thread here was just underused, it would be good to link all mentions of discussions about batteries into it one day. >Looking up LTO and it seems a lot more expensive and doesnt necessarily last as long as LiFeOP4 Last time I checked, it was the variant with the most charging cycles. But I don't follow all the new developments.

>>30252 >>30254 This even has it's own thread >>2956 (which it shouldn't have, a lot of threads should be merged one day)

Kiwi’s Basic Battery Guide! Watts are volts multiplied by amps. For example, a tiny computer using 5 volts at 2 amps is consuming 10 watts. Watt hours is how long a battery can supply power. A 50 watt hour battery would be able to power this tiny computer for 5 hours. In reality, it’s best to assume you’ll get less than this as your watts consumed will vary over time and things like voltage regulators and other aspects of her power system will drain the battery slightly faster than expected. Assuming 80% of the batteries power is usable by your waifu is a safe rule of thumb. Lithium LiIon Lithium Ion cells generally have 100-250 watt hours per kg of mass (higher density can be had, they’re uncommon and expensive). 250 to 700 watt hours per liter of volume. They can be expected to last between 300 to 1,000+ charge cycles before dropping to 80% of initial capacity. From there, expect the usable energy to drop significantly over time. Safe cell voltage ranges between 2.5 to 4.35. Voltage ranges between 3 to 4.1 will allow the cells to last longer. LiPo Lithium Polymer cells are designed to reach higher energy densities. They are closer to the 250 watt hours per kg and 700 watt hours per liter than LiIon batteries of the same cost. They will inflate and potentially explode if discharged below 2.5 volts or charged above 4.4 volts. They are tempting given their low cost and high energy density, they’re too explodey for me. These batteries need to be kept at normal temperatures or they go boom. Costs are reasonable. LiFePO4 Llithium Iron Phosphate cells typically have 90 to 150 watt hours per kg of mass. 200 to ~300 watt hours per liter of volume. Expect them to last ~3,000 charge cycles before dropping to 80% usable energy if you abuse them by over discharging them and charging them with poorly regulated voltage. They will last 4,000 to 10,000+ charge cycles before reaching 80% if you are careful. They tolerate over charging and complete discharging, but will lose capacity faster if done so. Safe voltage range is 2 to 3.6 volts. Only discharging to 2.8 volts will allow them to last hundreds to thousands more cycles. More tolerant to heat and cold, try to keep them at normal temperatures. Usually the lowest cost of the 3. LTO Lithium Titanate cells have an energy density of 30 to 100+ watt hours per kg. 100 to 150 watt hours per liter. They can last between 6,000 to 30,000+ charge cycles before reaching 80%. Safe voltage range of 1.8 to 2.8 volts. I’m unfamiliar with them, but they seem to have the potential to last for well over 30 years before they noticeably degrade in usable capacity. They are safe at extreme temperature ranges of -40c/f to 60c or 140f. The most expensive.

>>30276 i thought they only get swol when they heat up, its something to do with gases being produced which is why spotlights still use lead batteries because the amp required for a spotlight is too high to avoid heat from the draw the holy grail will always be pic related though but im not too into biology to figure out why its so hard to replicate in a machine

>>30276 Thanks, that's good for having an overview in this thread here. >Only discharging to 2.8 volts will allow them to last hundreds to thousands more cycles. More tolerant to heat and cold, try to keep them at normal temperatures. Usually the lowest cost of the 3. This here is the important part I didn't know about. Yes, this very likely makes LiFePO4 even more interesting than LTOs.

>>30252 Yup, that is how SPUD >>30161 works: raspberry pi for the avatar, server is a PC w/ RTX 2070 running an LLM and ai TTS. Data latency via wifi is neligible because the data transmitted per response can be measured in kb (server recieves about 20 bytes of text, then outputs a 120kb wav file), delay mostly comes from my graphics card being smol and taking a while. I'm using some premade batteries. They might be expensive (price has nearly doubled thanks to biden-omics) but sometimes they can be found in Harbor Freight's open box section on discount: folks buying the incorrect battery for their tools, I suspect. Comes with a built-in board to help with battery management and whatnot, but somehow I managed to brick one lol. Still not sure if I can fit it into SPUD's body though, might end up making some chonky megaman-esque boots for her to wear to hold the batteries and lower the center of gravity like the robosapien line does. >>30276 I had some LiPos start to inflate/heat up while charging them. Chucked 'em in a snowbank for a day to make sure they were cool then disposed of 'em.

>>30276 >>30278 I kept coming across videos of people buying LTOs and reporting their grade A battery was only giving performance of grade B so they got ripped off.

This has me thinking. Are soft pack batteries safer than hard pack? Since soft pack cant build up pressure so it cant explode so dangerously if punctured or something. >>30285 > I had some LiPos start to inflate/heat up while charging them. Chucked 'em in a snowbank for a day to make sure they were cool then disposed of 'em. Considering lithium is highly reactive to water that wasn't exactly the best move. In future you need a class D powder extinguisher in case of lithium fires. Though in a pinch you maybe could use a box of sodium bicarbonate sprinkled on it.

>>30289 I forgot to mention a few details like I did seal it in a bag first and the snowbank was in the middle of a field :D Talking with a fellow who did beetleweights battlebots that did use lithium batteries he needed contingency plans for insurance reasons. His plan (which he had to implement once) was putting the beastie in a sturdy metal box until the lithium burned itself out. And that is why I'm sticking with Lead-acid for my non-robowafiu projects. Those break the worst you have is an acid spill (which I've had to deal with before).

>>30290 yeah your friend has the right approach, found out these things are unstoppable bombs, all the oxygen is already there in the uh lithium oxide, once its hot enough to free the oxygen you get a runaway reaction of more heat leading to more oxidation leading to more heat and more oxygen and so on and so forth, all you can do is cover it and wait it out because its not stopping

>>30289 >class D powder extinguisher I would really like to never use that in a domestic place. I hope the carbon dioxide ones are good enough. That said,... >>30295 >all you can do is cover it and wait it out because its not stopping Maybe I'm not well informed yet, but I thought wet sand was the best way to go.

>>30299 CO2 extinguishers are for class B and C fires. Class C being electrical fires but I think that's more like fire from the arcing electricity or flaming cables or something. Class D fires are metal fires including lithium though oddly some extinguishers do not even mention lithium. I am seeing some mixed information online some suggesting certain class C extinguishers might work but I think that's possibly wrong since lithium is self oxidizing if I recall right. Probably best to go physically to a fire station and chat with them for ideas if you have trouble finding info from reliable sources. One thing you can do is avoid full charges and full discharges which will extend the battery life and keep it from getting too hot when charging. Yet then again I actually did find out you can actually buy sodium ion cells even now. Probably not ideal for charge cycles but for testing as long as the voltage is as much as you need they might do fine. They can still explode if punctured or something but they dont burst into flames so it might be useful for just testing maybe?

>>30299 any covering will do, just anything to isolate it from the surroundings, its basically thermite at that point

>>30285 > Comes with a built-in board to help with battery management and whatnot, but somehow I managed to brick one Do you still have it? I have a hoverboard battery that was reading 1 volt, and was able to "restore" it by the method in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Ru28-1yMKE In my case the BMS board was glitched, and though I had the battery on the charger for several days (apparently not charging) the battery read 11 volts, when it was actually fully charged. By doing the short circuit- with a pair of plastic handled scissors- the battery immediately "revived" (the BMS reset) and now works properly.

>>30328 Ive done the short circuit thing on some lithium batteries before. They get extremely hot very quickly and risk exploding into flames. Something to do with the heat breaking up crystals formed in them or something if i recall right. It of course causes damage to the battery but yeah it can work.

>>30328 >Do you still have it? Of course, that little shit was expensive. One of these days I'm going to be dissecting it and replacing/recharging the cells individually.

>>30308 Good news on the battery fire front or lack there of. I was watching some electric sail boat stuff, and they now have solid state batteries. You can drive a nail through them and they won't catch on fire. They have super long life of 12,000 cycles and comparative energy density. I've read before that they can be higher. @7:00 EXCLUSIVE_ Secrets Shared by Marine Battery Manufacturers _ Step 381 They have tested it so it will be product soon. This won't help right away but the fact that they have production tested cells means not so very long they will have more of them. The advantages in lifetime and safety will likely drive the market to them.

>>30348 Wouldnt the right battery size be more like something for an ebike, moped or motorcycle?

>>30348 Yes, solid state batteries are being talked about for quite some time, and they might become very interesting, but it needs to be a real product and available in the right size made for hobbyists and robots in particular. >>30350 >something for an ebike, moped or motorcycle Still too big. At least the later two.

>>30356 its been a thing since forever its just not used as a battery most of the time because its no where near as effective as a chemical battery, dont think there will ever be anything better than liion

So a while ago I did this long calculation based on the energy used by humans to do work and an estimate of what power would be needed by a waifu here, >>13408 So today I'm looking a site where they have an actual humanoid robot built now and they say they will have a 2.25 KWh battery pack. https://www.nextbigfuture.com/2024/08/figure-2-humanoid-bot.html My estimate, 2,500W/h. So yes I'm bragging. I wonder what their robot sells for? I estimated a total cost at the link, and I think it could be cheaper but with all the bells and whistles, materials alone $10,846. The highest cost in my estimates was in muscles $6000 and batteries $1,960. Silicon and miscellaneous was also high at $1,000 which is realistic if you use a good deal of it. It's expensive. Before I have mentioned I thought you could get a waifu for $3,000. I'm not so sure now. It would be really hard. You would have to do some sort of miracle, and I think it can be done, for muscles, and likely it would have limited battery power. The price of batteries has come down and if you limited the waifu to easy work, a lot of sitting around and maybe frequent recharges then you could likely chop the battery cost to 25%, lower the electronics cost to $600 (tough to do and a close call), lose the silicon and miscellaneous for $1,000 and crush it to $100 you get $3,056. But that's no profit. I think it would not be too tough to get a material cost of $4,000 but this doesn't include labor and it also does not include making the machinery, molds, etc. you would need to make these in quantity. I believe at the original $10,000 USD cost you could build these, include labor and make a profit but it would take a long time to get back the labor you spent on design and equipment to build these. My guess is they will sell these bots at over $40,000 to account for all these cost. Maybe as high as $75,000 to get some good return on their money. Now this may seem silly to try and cost these but even if the numbers are wrong they give you some sort of guideline on where you need to trim or be super creative to cut cost. Muscles are the biggest. I don't believe we can cut too much on the electronics or batteries. We have no control over those but muscle cost is something we do so it would seem that effort there would be rewarding. I haven't included a dime for touch sensing because I have no idea how to do this cheaply. It's a difficult problem. So far I assume if something doesn't come up you will have to use position sensing and force feedback from the muscles to tell if something is being touched and how hard. Not very elegant, At all but that's what is "cost effective" right now that I can see. The shin and meat on it is also something that needs to be thought about. I have some ideas but they are not whole yet. Bones I think are not too difficult. Cheapest would be concrete and wire mesh. Also Titebond 3 glue and fiber would likely be fine. Cartilage, HDPE is the cheapest. Used milk bottles would work, melted into shape, with string tendons. Just some thoughts.

>>32819 First of all: 2.25 KWh battery is not 2.25 KW per hour consumption in a regular use case. I mean, it doesn't say the robot will need that amount, unless it's supposed to work for one hour (didn't read the linked article). It could work less time or more than an hour. Also, this is a robot walking around for a while and working. It was never realistic to get that for less than 20k as a fully build robot or for even less than 5k. That said, our waifus would sit around much more, and shouldn't need to carry anything heavy. Maybe water containers in some areas, lifting one to fill some can. Or lifting a toddler a little bit (not walking and carrying it around anytime soon). Maybe a 5kg pet.

>>32819 >I wonder what their robot sells for? My guess at this early stage is that Figure AI is trying to compete directly with Tesla's Optimus [1]. Since Elon's stated 'eventual' price point is about US$20K, then I'd imagine the cost of Figure 02 should eventually settle out on a similar amount. Competition for both of them (and others) with the baste Chinese may quickly drive these cost numbers lower, however [2]. Let us hope so!! :D --- 1. related: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jEiHJIqRZok 2. 1Bn Optimus'-related : ( >>32829 ) >=== -fmt, prose edit -add hotlink, crosslink footnotes -retract funpost, apparently I was wrong lol

>>32826 >Elon's stated 'eventual' price point is about US$20K I hadn't heard that. I think he could easily get there if the compute was not too expensive. I'm fairly sure I could build one for 10K, likely less, but I couldn't do the programming. I read Elon's self driving chip cost, if I remember correctly, $35. I think this was from a Jim Keller interview who helped design it. He has two in a Tesla car. You can bet his robot likely has the same processors to cut cost. "...Each Tesla AI chip runs at 2GHz and performs 36 trillion operations per second. That performance is possible because Tesla optimized the chips for self-driving cars and dropped anything more general purpose, said Debjit Das Sarma, another Tesla chip designer and former AMD engineer. For example, the chip handles data recorded as 8-bit integers instead of the 16-bit floating-point numbers more common in AI tasks but that require more power to process. For another, it's got an extremely limited set of instructions it can process. And it's got a gargantuan 32 megabytes of high-speed SRAM memory on the chip, which means it doesn't have to wait around while fetching data from much slower conventional DRAM memory...." https://www.cnet.com/tech/computing/meet-tesla-self-driving-car-computer-and-its-two-ai-brains/ (36 trillion operations per second) damn that's fast We were talking about how likely a lot of stuff could be 8 bit and that seems to be true, or at least for self driving. Robots should be the same. It's going to be tough to find something with that speed and mass of built in memory. All that memory on the same chip is like a cache memory and means it can haul ass on compute with the focused task it has. All these 32 bit chips power are wasted when you only need 8-bits. Comparing two 32 bit and the 8-bit take the same amount of time. Maybe we could cheat by having less RAM and use SSD, "...Currently, the maximum speed for an NVMe PCIe 3.0 (aka Gen 3) SSD is up to 3,500MB per second, while a NVMe PCIe 4.0 (aka Gen 4) SSD can hit up to 7,500MB per second..." NVMe PCIe 3.0 (aka Gen 3) SSD 3,500MB = $128 or so. It's likely for us the sweet spot on cost would be to buy a standard PC motherboard with room for a lot of RAM, NVMe PCIe slot and maybe a mass produced one generation back processor. When I buy motherboards every few years that's what I do. Usually I get like two generations back. So the latest processor might be $1,000 I get something for around $100-120 or so. Any older and cost goes up and the performance is not worth the money unless you are a game freak. And I don't play any games. Of course lately I've been lusting for AI power for making graphics, but it's soooo expensive. What I have now is perfect for what I mostly do but useless for AI work.

>>3282 > 2.25 KWh battery is not 2.25 KW per hour consumption in a regular use case. Yeh, could be 225W for 10 hours. I think they were figuring 20 hours. I found, "...Over an 8-hour work shift, an average, healthy, well-fed and motivated manual laborer may sustain an output of around 75 watts of power...."

>>32848 >I hadn't heard that He mentioned it during his 2024 Tesla shareholder meeting : ( >>31772 ) . >You can bet his robot likely has the same processors to cut cost. It does. They have one in the chest (exactly where I'm urging Anons to locate the 'breadbox' [a cooled Faraday cage+protective frame] for their robowaifus). BTW, this AI "chip" is actually a largish assembly of about 1ft^2 in area (think chip carrier on steroids). You can check out the first Tesla AI Day event to see it. >(36 trillion operations per second) damn that's fast Certainly impressive, but nothing like what's coming in the future! :D >It's going to be tough to find something with that speed and mass of built in memory. We won't need to IMO. We're already on a trajectory to deliver robowaifus at a much-lower cost factor, and using nothing more than commodity, specialized compute hardware suited to amateur DIY'rs (RPis, ESP32s, etc.). We may devise some custom encoders if we can't find suitable ones for things like the knuckles, eyes, etc., but other than that we are looking at COTS stuff+3D-printed physical components. The actuators are the biggest cost-factor, by far (since the software [at least ours] will all be free-as-in-speech & free-as-in-beer). >muh home server My intent is to do everything onboard the robowaifu. Any other approach will preclude smooth-and-fun Walk&Picnic in the Park days with robowaifu -- OBVIOUSLY A VERY-HIGH PRIORITY DESIGN GOAL!! : ( cf. >>32036 ) :DD OTOH, having a detachable-randoseru for extra battery/compute/cooling capacity is a given for my designs during these early years. Also, a home server (-room?) setup is a must if you want to produce private & custom -trained language models, etc., as well. >=== -minor edit

>>32851 >We're already on a trajectory to deliver robowaifus at a much-lower cost factor, and using nothing more than commodity, specialized compute hardware I ran across some astound new micro-controller parts and commented on them in the MC thread here, >>32871 Truly amazing stuff and huge enablers.

Really good news o the battery front. “Natron Energy to build GW-scale sodium-ion battery factory in U.S.The new planned manufacturing facility will produce 24 GW” American company. No rare earths or limited minerals. It uses sodium and Prussian blue , a iron based compound used as blue paint. All cost effective stuff. I think it might be possible to make one of these from scratch. Charges way, way faster. Order of magnitude. Last longer, does not overheat, does not catch on fire. Look at their specs. They don’t compare to Lithium-iron phosphate which has better specs, but theirs are still good. https://natron.energy/our-technology They are aiming for bulk storage first. Industrial stuff. Which makes sense. Less packaging, less cost to start. THis could eventually drive the cost of batteries to very low levels. A rule of thumb is you can mass produce a product for 10% over material cost. A rough but fairly valid rule and the cost of this stuff is next to nothing.

>>32997 Very encouraging, Anon... here's to hoping your prediction comes true! Cheers. :^)

>>32997 A glitch in the sodium prussian blue battery. Not as good Wh/kg. Basically between lead acid and Li-ion. 70Wh/kg. Though this is not really a total disadvantage. Especially if it is cheap. The advantages of it are very high.

>>32997 >>33013 >doesn't catch fire That's all I need to hear. Less energy density is a perfectly acceptable tradeoff for not having to worry about catastrophic battery failure when I'm cuddling mai waifu.

>>33015 >Less energy density is a perfectly acceptable tradeoff for not having to worry about catastrophic battery failure when I'm cuddling mai waifu. THIS.

Related: >>33073 > Post-apocalyptic power supply, EMP robustness, internal solar steam driven energy support

>>37810 Excellent OP, OP. Thanks! :^) <---> >those Sukabu's tho... That man is a brilliant, hip (see what I did there? :D concept designer tbh.

>>33015 I still stand by LiFePO4 as the ideal battery for robowaifu. They do not burn like Li-Ion. Generally, the only way they can catch fire is if they're punctured in such a way that exposes more Li than electrolyte in a high humidity environment or underwater. They can also burn if you try to bake them in an oven, so don't put 'em in a cake. :^) In all seriousness, they're more than safe enough for our needs. You'd be plenty safe snuggled up to a cute little pone wife. >>37814 Thanks! I'm trying to imitate his hip designs for MaidCom. Be a week or two before I have anything worth showing though. To keep this post on topic, I also like the idea of a mobile battery/server to follow or serve as a base for, our cute robots, as seen in picrel.

>>37817 >I still stand by LiFePO4 as the ideal battery for robowaifu. Is it the kind of battery system that's a) available from multiple vendors (re: GreerTech's recent admonition about this on the bunker), and b) available in smol form-factors suitable for placing inside our robowaifu's torsos? >>37817 > I also like the idea of a mobile battery/server to follow or serve as a base for, our cute robots, as seen in picrel. I do too! For Lin's platform design (or wheelchair -oriented waifus in general), or for my concept designs for Buckey (the little pony steed for dear Sumomo-chan), they can not only serve as mobility platforms, but can also serve as mobile power docks. <---> As to longer-term, more flexible solutions (picnics in the local park, picnics off the beaten paths, picnics at the top of big mountains!! :D , it seems like we'll need some type of battery backpack systems. Both for Master & robowaifu. (And ofc also lightweight, foldout, solar-panel replenishment systems : cf. >pic#3 - OP ITT.) And just now while sharing this -- it also occurred to me there's plent of waste heat sources. What about some kind of smol Stirling Engine type mechanism that might generate replenishment electricity from those little butane (or other fuels) camp stoves? Maybe even from old-school log fires? And also via thermoelectric systems, maybe? :^)